Look at this LOL

[CB]

Please Sign this. Razor Edge Owner Admiting to using several different breeds to make his dogs.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/132176281?ltl=1160502342

[davidlau_2002]

signed. bada bing.

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

thats the same one as is in the should the ukc pull the papers thread aint it?
ah well either way i am for it so i will sign.#39

[Big Rod]

couldnt live with my self if i didnt sign.

[bahamutt99]

Got my sig. I hope this petition leads to real action.

[truegames]

I signed it. I hope the ukc will do something about this but I doubt it.

[gator]

Please Sign this. Razor Edge Owner Admiting to using several different breeds to make his dogs.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/132176281?ltl=1160502342I dont think Im ready to sign this just yet.. I understand everyones thought pattern here,this guy is taking different types of bulldogs to make this thing he calls bully`s at least that is what Im getting out of it but then again Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer either. Anyways I can`t sign because this guy claims he created a New BREED of dog. Al breeds of dogs were created through the mixing of different types of breeds to create and develop a type of dog with the qualities and traits that person is looking for. Don`t get me wrong now Im an old school dogman and dont like to mix my stuff with anything but if this guy wanted to try and create a breed that himself and other people could love and enjoy then so be it and he was sucessful. Just my humble opinion, let the bashing begin....

[simms]

I dont think Im ready to sign this just yet.. I understand everyones thought pattern here,this guy is taking different types of bulldogs to make this thing he calls bully`s at least that is what Im getting out of it but then again Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer either. Anyways I can`t sign because this guy claims he created a New BREED of dog. Al breeds of dogs were created through the mixing of different types of breeds to create and develop a type of dog with the qualities and traits that person is looking for. Don`t get me wrong now Im an old school dogman and dont like to mix my stuff with anything but if this guy wanted to try and create a breed that himself and other people could love and enjoy then so be it and he was sucessful. Just my humble opinion, let the bashing begin....
I guess the guy can breed and feed what he wants.....should the registries allow him to register theses animals that he creates.....Nope,Not as APBT... as they are not bred to standard.

Now with consideration of these breeders, should they be allowed to name and register their animals ......yeah,I think they have been around long enough as they are clearly established. Give em thier own name !

[Diesel]

Let me first say, I dont like R.E. Dogs, that is a line I dont deal with, but I did see his responses to the accusations and thought i would share them.

From the man's own mouth:
re-post from the greyline board- when asked about the "report" Dave Wilson responded:

First off I never said any of that!
I wrote my rebuttle a day before and it says things way different.
That guys article was from what he gathered at the event, I never even talked to him.
I had so much to fight to get this event to even go on!
The news paper dogged the breed and the event two days before!
That article had alot of mis-quotes and other things never said in it. I was a little mad that they used my name with things I never said.
Then when I stepped back and saw that it was a positive write up on the event, it didn't bother me anymore.
All that matters is that they said good things about the dogs and event. A community who was against the breed has now changed its perception!
Some of you still want to stir drama and make BS out of something positive for the breed?

When asked about the other breeds in the line:


And in my line I used UKC show lines all APBT's, AKC show lines all AST's, and ADBA lines all APBT's. That's what I used in the creation of Razors Edge! To some they are different breeds and to some they are all the same. I could care less, that how I made my line.

Bulldogs, Mastiffs, and all those other mixes weren't used in my line. Just what I said.

I call them American Bullies for a reason. We all call them Bullies anyway, and they are NOT bred the same way and for the same purposes as the original "Pit Bulls". The blood may all stem back to 100% true Pit Bull blood, but the purpose and looked changed many years ago!
Obviously most people on these boards like the new look!
Greyline is really on the same page as Razors Edge...

And when asked about how he felt about the event overall:

That article was from the local paper and they messed up a lot of peoples comments. Really all that mattered was they had positive things to say and that public perception was changed!

[MR BIGGS]

OK so from what you posted stating what he supposedly said, he never said that he mixed anything in but at the same time he also said when he read the article he didn't care because it was all a positive event for the breed. If someone is putting words in your mouth that you didn't say then why let them get away with it especially if it's such a big deal or is his bloodlines not a big deal to him?
I don't agree with him even calling his dogs bullies, but I sure will sign the petition if it helps to get the papers pulled and I'll be sure to post that link in a few places just to help. I think they should start in the original breeders yard(Dave Wilson) with an investigation to and examine his dogs thoroughly.
Let me first say, I dont like R.E. Dogs, that is a line I dont deal with, but I did see his responses to the accusations and thought i would share them.

From the man's own mouth:
re-post from the greyline board- when asked about the "report" Dave Wilson responded:

First off I never said any of that!
I wrote my rebuttle a day before and it says things way different.
That guys article was from what he gathered at the event, I never even talked to him.
I had so much to fight to get this event to even go on!
The news paper dogged the breed and the event two days before!
That article had alot of mis-quotes and other things never said in it. I was a little mad that they used my name with things I never said.
Then when I stepped back and saw that it was a positive write up on the event, it didn't bother me anymore.
All that matters is that they said good things about the dogs and event. A community who was against the breed has now changed its perception!
Some of you still want to stir drama and make BS out of something positive for the breed?

When asked about the other breeds in the line:


And in my line I used UKC show lines all APBT's, AKC show lines all AST's, and ADBA lines all APBT's. That's what I used in the creation of Razors Edge! To some they are different breeds and to some they are all the same. I could care less, that how I made my line.

Bulldogs, Mastiffs, and all those other mixes weren't used in my line. Just what I said.

I call them American Bullies for a reason. We all call them Bullies anyway, and they are NOT bred the same way and for the same purposes as the original "Pit Bulls". The blood may all stem back to 100% true Pit Bull blood, but the purpose and looked changed many years ago!
Obviously most people on these boards like the new look!
Greyline is really on the same page as Razors Edge...

And when asked about how he felt about the event overall:

That article was from the local paper and they messed up a lot of peoples comments. Really all that mattered was they had positive things to say and that public perception was changed!

[Aceman]

There are some people doing some strange stuff. Here in eastern Canada i seen an add in a paper for a fellow selling minature bras dor bulldogs. I called them and asked them what a bras dor bulldog was, the guys wife told me it,s a recipe of diff bulldogs he,s breeding to make his own,, by the way bras dor is a town in my area, I,m taking it thats where this guy is from. He was selling the pups for 500 dollars a pop.

[MR BIGGS]

I'm sure people will continue to experiment with mixing APBTs' to Bluffs to Bulldogs to Rottweilers and whatever is bulky. I remember when Rotty were the fashion and people still mix them with other dogs to get "something better"
There are some people doing some strange stuff. Here in eastern Canada i seen an add in a paper for a fellow selling minature bras dor bulldogs. I called them and asked them what a bras dor bulldog was, the guys wife told me it,s a recipe of diff bulldogs he,s breeding to make his own,, by the way bras dor is a town in my area, I,m taking it thats where this guy is from. He was selling the pups for 500 dollars a pop.

[Attila]

I dont think Im ready to sign this just yet.. I understand everyones thought pattern here,this guy is taking different types of bulldogs to make this thing he calls bully`s at least that is what Im getting out of it but then again Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer either. Anyways I can`t sign because this guy claims he created a New BREED of dog. Al breeds of dogs were created through the mixing of different types of breeds to create and develop a type of dog with the qualities and traits that person is looking for. Don`t get me wrong now Im an old school dogman and dont like to mix my stuff with anything but if this guy wanted to try and create a breed that himself and other people could love and enjoy then so be it and he was sucessful. Just my humble opinion, let the bashing begin....

Let me get this strait. You're a moderator on this site and you feel making a new breed and calling it a APBT for a few decades is ok with you! You can't sign because you agree he is doing something good or creating a new breed of dog! When a person develops a new breed he has to have a goal and set of objectives, a breeding program and a name for the dang thing. Using a given name for your mutt is wrong and yes every dog ever registered by him or any one that bought dogs from him, and every one doing the same practice as him should have their registrations revolked and if they want to register them as something give it a name petition a registry to register them as a breed. I will tell you this a breed has to exist as a standard for several years even several decads. They have yet to get a written standard for the mutts. I fail to understand how you can be a moderator and not understand that simple truth. You have got to be pulling my chain and joking with us because otherwise I can't see where you have the credentials to moderate a game dog site. This isn't a bully breed site. No those mutts are not game and never could or would be. I would put my crappiest dog up against one of them in a second. That is of course it was legal or in a country that allowed such:rolleyes: You said you are old school well damn it ball up and show it. WTF I can't friggen believe you typed that load. I have all the respect of what I thought were all the moderators but this load of crap doesn't lead me to feel that way about you at the moment. This person has been crapping in our events and registries enough. It is about time some one got rid of them for good and make them get their own name and registry. Developing a new breed. Blah Name it then and retract the registrations under false and hung registrations. Yah they were hung. Can't develop crap with hung papers!!!!http://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon8.gif

[MR BIGGS]

Right on point.
I co-sign my name to this post:
Let me get this strait. You're a moderator on this site and you feel making a new breed and calling it a APBT for a few decades is ok with you! You can't sign because you agree he is doing something good or creating a new breed of dog! When a person develops a new breed he has to have a goal and set of objectives, a breeding program and a name for the dang thing. Using a given name for your mutt is wrong and yes every dog ever registered by him or any one that bought dogs from him, and every one doing the same practice as him should have their registrations revolked and if they want to register them as something give it a name petition a registry to register them as a breed. I will tell you this a breed has to exist as a standard for several years even several decads. They have yet to get a written standard for the mutts. I fail to understand how you can be a moderator and not understand that simple truth. You have got to be pulling my chain and joking with us because otherwise I can't see where you have the credentials to moderate a game dog site. This isn't a bully breed site. No those mutts are not game and never could or would be. I would put my crappiest dog up against one of them in a second. That is of course it was legal or in a country that allowed such:rolleyes: You said you are old school well damn it ball up and show it. WTF I can't friggen believe you typed that load. I have all the respect of what I thought were all the moderators but this load of crap doesn't lead me to feel that way about you at the moment. This person has been crapping in our events and registries enough. It is about time some one got rid of them for good and make them get their own name and registry. Developing a new breed. Blah Name it then and retract the registrations under false and hung registrations. Yah they were hung. Can't develop crap with hung papers!!!!http://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon8.gif

[Attila]

Oh and yes I signed as well. Sure did. Thanks Mr. Biggs. Glad to have your backing. Good man. rep to ya.

[debodebo]

I just signed it.

[hillbilly]

got mine on there

[jadedpitgirl]

I have already signed. Seen it on another board...

[jbh38]

I have a question though, everyone wants papers pulled, whose papers? All dogs that have Razor Edge on or in them? Does that make any sense? Does UKC have time to DNA profile thousands of dogs? I don't understand the whole thing other than making him look bad and the people that buy his dogs, don't care anyway, so what is the whole point of this? UKC is not going to pull papers, just like ADBA never pulled any Whopper dog papers. This is just a waste of time.

[RED GATOR]

Definitly had to sign that!!!!!!

[MR BIGGS]

What's so hard about signing the damn petition. Does it kill you? Even if it doesn't work, this is an opportunity to separate APBTs' from those mutts. They wouldn't have to DNA profile all the dogs. All they would have to do is look into their database and cull all the dogs with any of those lines in them. If you don't wanna represent this breed in any way that could help then why are you here?I have a question though, everyone wants papers pulled, whose papers? All dogs that have Razor Edge on or in them? Does that make any sense? Does UKC have time to DNA profile thousands of dogs? I don't understand the whole thing other than making him look bad and the people that buy his dogs, don't care anyway, so what is the whole point of this? UKC is not going to pull papers, just like ADBA never pulled any Whopper dog papers. This is just a waste of time.

[jbh38]

So you expect UKC to just cancel the registration on all dogs with Razor Edge in their background? What about ADBA, quite a few Razor Edge registered ADBA too, and AKC. What about them? You are talking thousands of dogs.

[jbh38]

If you don't wanna represent this breed in any way that could help then why are you here?

and what is that supposed to mean? you don't even know who I am or what we do to promote the breed.
We have had weight pulls for the last 5 years, all awards donated and all money raised went to unfortunate children during the holidays and to the local orphanage to sponsor some children. We have our pull at a large shopping center where quite a few people come watch. We show up at BSL meetings in the area and defend the dogs, so who are you to tell me that I don't help the breed or my community in general? I was asking a simple realistic question.

[PIt4life]

I signed it!!

[MR BIGGS]

The subject in the question is representing this breed. I'm not here to pick or poke at you, but after all that attending BSL meetings and weightpulls you could not have realized how signing a petition such as this would help the APBT being that those two events could probably care less about the APBT standards and how pulling papers on those RE and other dogs would separate the two breeds finally. If you think physically showing up to those meetings is actually getting something done, which obviously isn't the case because BSL is still banning cities and states, then what's the big deal with you and this petition? Are you not here for the APBT?
If you don't wanna represent this breed in any way that could help then why are you here?

and what is that supposed to mean? you don't even know who I am or what we do to promote the breed.
We have had weight pulls for the last 5 years, all awards donated and all money raised went to unfortunate children during the holidays and to the local orphanage to sponsor some children. We have our pull at a large shopping center where quite a few people come watch. We show up at BSL meetings in the area and defend the dogs, so who are you to tell me that I don't help the breed or my community in general? I was asking a simple realistic question.

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

So you expect UKC to just cancel the registration on all dogs with Razor Edge in their background? What about ADBA, quite a few Razor Edge registered ADBA too, and AKC. What about them? You are talking thousands of dogs.i think and this is in all honesty,they should pull the adba papers as well,the adba was created as a game dog registery and as we all know they are nothing of that sort.i think pull all ''respected'' and i use that term loosely but they should pull all papers and just let them use their own registery.

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

Let me get this strait. You're a moderator on this site and you feel making a new breed and calling it a APBT for a few decades is ok with you! You can't sign because you agree he is doing something good or creating a new breed of dog! When a person develops a new breed he has to have a goal and set of objectives, a breeding program and a name for the dang thing. Using a given name for your mutt is wrong and yes every dog ever registered by him or any one that bought dogs from him, and every one doing the same practice as him should have their registrations revolked and if they want to register them as something give it a name petition a registry to register them as a breed. I will tell you this a breed has to exist as a standard for several years even several decads. They have yet to get a written standard for the mutts. I fail to understand how you can be a moderator and not understand that simple truth. You have got to be pulling my chain and joking with us because otherwise I can't see where you have the credentials to moderate a game dog site. This isn't a bully breed site. No those mutts are not game and never could or would be. I would put my crappiest dog up against one of them in a second. That is of course it was legal or in a country that allowed such:rolleyes: You said you are old school well damn it ball up and show it. WTF I can't friggen believe you typed that load. I have all the respect of what I thought were all the moderators but this load of crap doesn't lead me to feel that way about you at the moment. This person has been crapping in our events and registries enough. It is about time some one got rid of them for good and make them get their own name and registry. Developing a new breed. Blah Name it then and retract the registrations under false and hung registrations. Yah they were hung. Can't develop crap with hung papers!!!!http://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon8.gifcouldnt have said it better myself friend.

[sedaliapitbulls]

I that they created their own regristry because They knew that their papers would eventueally get pulled. -

[erin960]

Okay I'm not saying that those overgrown ugly dogs should be called APBTs but my dog, Dez, is a RE dog and he looks nothing like them. Maybe we got taken but if so I don't care because I don't want an overgrown mongrel. There is a picture of him in my gallery. We didn't pay alot for him and he is papered. I just wanted to put it out there that not all RE dogs look like that. If they pulled his papers I wouldn't care because its not like we are breeding him or anything like that. Papers or not he is and will always be a great dog and pet to me. So I will sign this petition.

[MR BIGGS]

It's hard to base it off looks that's why pulling all the papers would be more efficient. I will say for myself that not all Re dogs are overdone and ugly but the fact is that people try and pull them as APBTs' and being that they are far from breed standard is hurting the true APBT.
Okay I'm not saying that those overgrown ugly dogs should be called APBTs but my dog, Dez, is a RE dog and he looks nothing like them. Maybe we got taken but if so I don't care because I don't want an overgrown mongrel. There is a picture of him in my gallery. We didn't pay alot for him and he is papered. I just wanted to put it out there that not all RE dogs look like that. If they pulled his papers I wouldn't care because its not like we are breeding him or anything like that. Papers or not he is and will always be a great dog and pet to me. So I will sign this petition.

[sthsidemonsters]

bullshit .. take a look at these boys I have a game bred red rednose male that is 75-78 pounds he is jeep/redboy and then i have the blue bluenose re/watchdog/gotty male that is only 5-8 pounds larger than he is and they are both ADBA registered

[MR BIGGS]

Not sure I get your point, but there is a big difference and it doesn't boil down to weight only. The reason for the dogs existence alone is grounds for pulling papers and proof that they're overbred and oversized. People who are breeding those RE dogs and those like it are taking the two biggest dogs and making a litter for profit and then slapping the label of a APBT or pitbull on them.
bullshit .. take a look at these boys I have a game bred red rednose male that is 75-78 pounds he is jeep/redboy and then i have the blue bluenose re/watchdog/gotty male that is only 5-8 pounds larger than he is and they are both ADBA registered

[BamaBoy]

Here's what Manstopper kennels spewed on another board

"First of all NOBODY mentioned anything about our Bully pits having ANY Lab in them... they were talking about the "pits" that are resposible for most of the attacks on humans.. based on the high drive of the lab and the high ability of a pit....


The whole purpose of calling the breed we are producing the "American Bully Dog" is for idiots like the ones on this board... the ones who are trying to keep the game dog alive.... FOR WHAThttp://www.true-grit.us/html/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/cd01/huh.gif To roll?? I don't roll my animals... If I want to see anything fight I can turn on the TV... rent a video.. or slap someone upside the head... why pit a dog against another for my "pleasure"... fuck that... grow up... it's 2006 and fighting dogs has been illegal for a while now...

No.. we actually did what you guys cry about.. "call your breed a different name... it isn't a game dog... it doesn't fit the show standard..." BLAH BLAH BLAH.. well we did change the name and now you people are still bitching... owell... no love lost. What makes these dogs worth so much people askhttp://www.true-grit.us/html/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/cd01/huh.gif? The FACT that people will pay it does... what makes a Bently worth more then a Chevyhttp://www.true-grit.us/html/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/cd01/huh.gif Marketing, supply and demand.... all those neat things that keep the REAL WORLD going. Welcome to it....

I understand on a board with not 1 breeder that can pull a steady grand per pup how you guys would get offensive... I would be mad as well... BUT.. guess what... I am of the crowd that BULLlieves that if you can't beat them .. join them... I LOVE my "American Bully dogs"... they are great pets, stable as the day is long.. and bound to be around MUCH longer then any breed with the name "pit" in it... BSL is right around the corner.. and if we can prove that our "bullies" are not the issue we will be better for it...

Grow up people...


Also... I don't usually come to this board... so if anyone sees anyone talking anymore shit please email me so I can return to put you kids in check.

For the few that had good things to say... good for you... only room for a few leaders in a world full of followers.... Jose "


And here's the actual link (if it's ok with the mods)

http://www.true-grit.us/cgi-bin/YaBB2/YaBB.pl?num=1160456371

Scott

[sthsidemonsters]

HERE HERE FINALLY SOMEONE WORTH SOMETHING ON THIS BOARD!!!

[BamaBoy]

If you think I agree with Manstoppers, you're wrong. The man said it himself, he's in it for the $$$$. He is also contradictory in his post. Maybe you should re-read it.

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

see Biggs this is exactley what i was talking about earlier,and this is why i think we need some rules in place regarding this issue.

[miakoda]

All dogs that have Razor Edge on or in them?

YES. But not only UKC, but ADBA & anything else as well.

[kane85]

ok if they get all the papers pulled like adba and ukc and what ever they already have a registry the abkc why the f**k are they b*tching about they start there own thing and thats the end plus they get to charge what ever they want for paper work cause they are all about the money right.

[MR BIGGS]

If I could I would start a site where it is required to have potential members read an article about the true breed and standards of the APBT post an introduction about themsleves. Yes, I would require it before allowing them to become a member.
see Biggs this is exactley what i was talking about earlier,and this is why i think we need some rules in place regarding this issue.

[truegames]

i think and this is in all honesty,they should pull the adba papers as well,the adba was created as a game dog registery and as we all know they are nothing of that sort.i think pull all ''respected'' and i use that term loosely but they should pull all papers and just let them use their own registery.
I agree 100%.

[jbh38]

............

[Attila]

I have a question though, everyone wants papers pulled, whose papers? All dogs that have Razor Edge on or in them? Does that make any sense? Does UKC have time to DNA profile thousands of dogs? I don't understand the whole thing other than making him look bad and the people that buy his dogs, don't care anyway, so what is the whole point of this? UKC is not going to pull papers, just like ADBA never pulled any Whopper dog papers. This is just a waste of time.
simple answer. Because they are not just covered with hung papers the dogs are not pure bloods at all. Also because it is the right thing to do. Dna Profile on a mutt is worthless and there would be no point to do such test. See the name remove them or change the name of the breed of the dog. Never said it was going to be a simple or fun task but if the kennel club is worth a dime they will do it.

[MR BIGGS]

I don't even think there needed to be a confession about dogs being mixed in. As someone else posted on another thread the registries must also be in on it becasue just by looking at those mutts it's easy to tell they've got something else in'em, so now I'm thinking the registries are all about the money too.
simple answer. Because they are not just covered with hung papers the dogs are not pure bloods at all. Also because it is the right thing to do. Dna Profile on a mutt is worthless and there would be no point to do such test. See the name remove them or change the name of the breed of the dog. Never said it was going to be a simple or fun task but if the kennel club is worth a dime they will do it.

[Attila]

I don't even think there needed to be a confession about dogs being mixed in. As someone else posted on another thread the registries must also be in on it becasue just by looking at those mutts it's easy to tell they've got something else in'em, so now I'm thinking the registries are all about the money too.
Now that my friend is the real deal. All about money. That is why we charge $15 for registry and I cull any member with a bs dog. Not only are they about money they don't give a crap about the breed. As long as the papers come with green backs they file them and go to the bank with a fat smile on their face. I have been to so many shows lately and seen dogs that don't even resemble APBT's and look damn near strait up ABD or Bull Mastiff. 120 pounders. You would think your at a tractor pull.

[circlekpits]

Dave has said that he used AKC, UKC and ADBA bred dogs and they were from different lines. They were still pit bulls or amstaffs. I have an AMSTAFF that weighs in around 115 lbs and he is definitely a pure bred Red nose.


So why are we trying to get him banned from registrying his dogs as pit bulls with the UKC? If it is not your cup of tea to say then leave him alone. He does help trmendously in the BSL fights and has always been honest with people. As far as the money if someone is willing to pay that price for his dogs who are we to judge him for that?

http://www.circlekpits.net/cowboyjackies8.jpg

[miakoda]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought AmStaffs couldn't have red noses?

EDIT: From the AKC website
Head
Medium length, deep through, broad skull, very pronounced cheek muscles, distinct stop; and ears are set high. Ears - Cropped or uncropped, the latter preferred. Uncropped ears should be short and held rose or half prick. Full drop to be penalized. Eyes - Dark and round, low down in skull and set far apart. No pink eyelids. Muzzle - Medium length, rounded on upper side to fall away abruptly below eyes. Jaws well defined. Underjaw to be strong and have biting power. Lips close and even, no looseness. Upper teeth to meet tightly outside lower teeth in front. Nose definitely black.

[sedaliapitbulls]

Does anyone have any infomation on pigment coloring that can clear this up. I hear this every day. I,m not big on the subject , but I know there is alot of people on this boad that does know alot about pigments and how they work domance and all.

[simms]

simple answer. Because they are not just covered with hung papers the dogs are not pure bloods at all. Also because it is the right thing to do. Dna Profile on a mutt is worthless and there would be no point to do such test. See the name remove them or change the name of the breed of the dog. Never said it was going to be a simple or fun task but if the kennel club is worth a dime they will do it.

I agree.....

[WINSTROL]

Lmfaoooooooooooooooooooooooooo............
Them May Be Bulldogs But Not Pit Bulls By Any Means Jmho

[circlekpits]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought AmStaffs couldn't have red noses?

EDIT: From the AKC websiteThey are not preferred but there are some Red Nose AMSTAFF's around. Most of the AKC people just dont like them for whatever reason. I happen to have 2 that are red nose and registered AKC.

Here is a picture of the other that I have. This is Angel:

http://www.circlekpits.net/angel-mar06.jpg

And yet another AKC AMSTAFF without a black nose. This is Queen:

http://www.circlekpits.net/queen-jul06.jpg

[bluevalley]

Has anyone even read the article that Dave supposedly admited to mixing his dogs??? Because I have....and it says nothing about him mixing his dogs!!!

Here Read for yourself!!!

http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/102006/10082006/227623



Bad reputation Are the breeders to blame?


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Jimmy Garza of Cali Edge Kennels sits with Kimo, an American Bully. American Bully breeders say humans are responsible for creating fighting dogs many people call 'pit bulls.'
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Handlers show American Bullies in the young male category <LINE />at yesterday's show at the Fredericksburg Expo Center.
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<!------------------------------->Visitors take photographs of Ryan Gowler's American Bully, Ziggy. <LINE />Gowler, of Phoenix, Ariz., was representing Hypnotized Minds Kennel.
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Who's to blame? Humans or pit bulls? Back 2 Bullies Convention spurs debate




Date published: 10/8/2006

<STYLE type=text/css>p { font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none; color: #000000; text-align: justify; background-color: transparent}</STYLE>By MICHAEL ZITZ

Beloved dog actor Petey from "The Little Rascals" was a pit bull--even though the famous ring around his eye is said to have been fake, courtesy of Hollywood makeup artist Max Factor.

Many therapy dogs and search-and-rescue dogs are pit bulls.

But so were the dogs that killed Dorothy Sullivan, an 82-year-old Spotsylvania County woman, 18 months ago.

The Back 2 the Bullies Convention that attracted an estimated 2,000 dog enthusiasts to the Fredericksburg Expo Center yesterday offended some area residents with Sullivan's death still fresh in their minds.

State Sen. Edd Houck, D-Spotsylvania, one of the sponsors of a Sullivan-inspired measure tightening dog laws, called hosting the convention in Fredericksburg "really poor taste--insensitive to the tragic nature of Dorothy Sullivan's death here in our community."

But Dave Wilson, the Spotsylvania man who put on the convention, said its purpose was to promote the American Bully, a larger, more mellow dog that he said takes the bulldog and pit bull back to what they used to be considered--family-friendly pets.

"It's not a pit bull show," Wilson said, although there were some dogs there that breeders described as pit bulls, and some vendors were selling pit bull T-shirts.

Wilson called Sullivan's death "a tragic event."

He said it pointed out the need to stop irresponsible breeders and owners from turning dogs into weapons. And, he said, it underlined the need to keep all adult dogs on leashes.

"Any time you have grown dogs running free, that's a recipe for disaster, no matter what the breed," he said.

Wilson, 35, is one of the American Bully Kennel Club members who helped start the breed. He said it was an effort to directly respond to the bad things irresponsible dog breeders and owners have wrought.

In recent decades, he said, the American Pit Bull Terrier breed was corrupted by some breeders and owners who crossed it with other breeds to produce fighting dogs.

"It got into the hands of the wrong people and was used for the wrong purposes," he said. "I didn't want a fighting dog. I wanted the look of the dog, but not the attitude of the dog.

"My dogs are different--big impressive dogs, but real mellow and laid-back," Wilson said.

Spotsylvania Animal Control Warden Willy Tydings, who had a booth at the convention, agreed there's a big difference between the American Bully and the kind of pit bull bred to fight.

"This dog here [the Bully] would probably have a heart attack if it got into a fight," Tydings said. "It's too big and fat to fight. Fighting dogs are lean."

Tydings was on hand with John Goodman, deputy manager of animal fighting issues for the Humane Society of the United States, to pass out fliers and talk to people at the convention about a new effort to stamp out dogfighting.

"Dogfighting is to blame" for many animal attacks today, Goodman said.

Tydings said he suspects that the dogs that killed Sullivan had at one time been used for fighting, but can't prove that.

Goodman said dogs bred for fighting are usually a mix of bloodlines. He said the American Pit Bull Terrier itself isn't particularly aggressive, but when other breeds, such as the Labrador, are bred with it, that can be a problem.

"The Labrador is high-strung," Goodman said, and a mix of Lab and American Pit Bull Terrier can produce a powerful dog that gets overly excited and bites.

"Fight-dog breeders are the ones who perverted the pit bull," Goodman said.

Many argue that the typical family pit bull is not at all dangerous. They lobby against legislation they said could "outlaw" certain breeds, simply because of human irresponsibility.

Maureen Hill-Hauch, a Chancellor woman who is executive director of the American Dog Owners Association, pointed out that there are no pit bulls listed on the current Spotsylvania dangerous-dogs list that warns residents about pets that have attacked people.

On the list of a dozen dangerous dogs owned by people in the county and posted on the Internet by Spotsylvania Animal Control are two Akitas, a bulldog, a Chesapeake Bay retriever, a chow mix, two German shepherds, a shepherd mix, two Rottweilers, a Rottweiler mix and a shar-pei, but no pit bulls.

"But I've never seen a headline that said 'Akita bites girl,' " Hill-Hauch said.

She said the press is too eager to write headlines when they hear about a pit bull bite, because reference to the breed has become unjustifiably inflammatory.

Also, the term "pit bull" is widely used for many different breeds that are stocky, have big heads or have a ring around the eye.

"'Pit bull' is a generic term," said Lisa Peterson, director of communications for the American Kennel Club in New York.

Hill-Hauch went further.

"There is no such thing as a pit bull--there is no such dog," she said. "We don't know what a pit bull is."

Hartwood dog trainer Paula Thomas was at the convention with a flier that showed pictures of 25 different breeds often referred to as "pit bulls," and defied anyone to identify the one American Pit Bull Terrier.

She said her own pet is a rescue dog that is a mix of breeds but considered by some a pit bull.

Thomas pointed at another dog in the hall and said, "That's also considered a pit bull, but they're nothing alike."

[bluevalley]

Also if anyone wants to read What Dave actually went through to show a positive side for ALL US fighting BSL right now!! Read on....He wrote this on the Elite Edge Board....

And below is a post he wrote about the whole experiance during the weekend....I think he fought for what he believes in, how many of you would put your own money, time, health, & determination into it?





Thanks to everyone who supported the event and breed... Let my start by saying thank you to all of you who came out and supported the event, we all made it a success!
I’m sure there are a lot of things that didn’t go as planned, or go perfect, or as expected. If so, we apologize for that.
I will say the event changed the public perception of the breed and us its fanciers. That was proven, all in all, that was a huge step in fighting BSL’s and negative perception. I will explain.
A month before the event began I got a call from the city of Fredericksburg stating they needed to meet with me.
I was told that they did not approve of my event, events of this nature were not allowed in their city, and they were going to cancel it.
First, I never knew the Expo center was in the city of Fredericksburg. Fredericksburg is actually a few miles away, but before they built the shopping center that the Expo is within, they had the city limits changed, and that area included within that city. The developer actually had the pull and power to change the zonings? Anyway, it’s irrelevant to most of you all; but, there is a huge difference between Spotsylvania County and Fredericksburg City. Just to clue you all in, I believe Fredericksburg hasn’t realized that they lost the Civil war yet?
I checked around to see what affect it would have on our community if the event was canceled at this late time.
I found out that so many people had booked flights, rooms, time off from work, etc...
We had people flying in from Italy, Malta, Thailand, Japan, and the Philippines.
The EE had also spent a lot of money that would not be returned.
To make it short, too much money had been spent to back out.
Now I knew the fight would be on, but I kept it real quiet from everyone to keep the fear factor away.
Everything that could have been done was done!
They tried having Animal Control stop the event. They tried the Game Warden. The pulled a bunch of different permit rules. They tried to deny my permits. They had the local press, which they control write bad articles. They rounded up picketers. They out pressure on the Expo Center and did everything they could to get them to cancel it. The Expo Center even offered to give me the $25,000 we paid them back. They came at me with addendums that stated if I didn’t agree, they would have the right to cancel the event.
I had battles with the City Council, I had battles with the Police Dept, with Animal Control, with the Game Warden.
I had to pay an extra $4000 for added security. I was forced to by metal detector wands. I was forced to pay for extra Police Security.
I was ridiculed by the local media.
Even my after party was canceled!
The landlord for the club came at them and actually had them shut down for that weekend.
The city turned off their water.
All my performers that played Rap music were NOT allowed to perform at either the Expo or the After Party Concert.
Performers I had already paid for!
The made the night club put an add in the local paper and posted on their door that they after party was canceled!
The city not only fought about the dogs, but they won on the Rap music!
They forced us to change our fliers that we had already ran for 2 months.
They made the Expo Center take the word “Concert” off the name of the event.
Racial comments, stereotypes, and a lot of other slander was said to me and my affiliates!
They came at us from every angle they could!
I literally spent over a month fighting!
I spent every day away from my job and family!
I kept this quiet from all of you because I felt the obligation to make this event go on.
I lost over 15lbs from not eating or sleeping for over a month!
I fought a battle like none I had ever seen!
Then the night before the event, I lost Denile!
My favorite dog passed from a blood clot in her lungs.
You want to hear about a blow, that was the straw that broke this camels back.
The night before I really thought I was having a heart attack.
I even went as far as to go off in private and repent.
So I know a lot of things might not have gone perfect!
I know there were a lot of people that I didn’t get to talk to and thank. Tom Westfall for one.
I know there were a lot of dogs I didn’t get to see.
Two in particular that I had been dying to see in person.
Heffe and Suge Night! I never got to see these two and I had been waiting to finally see them.
I know some of the non profit booths didn’t get the exposure they should have.
They didn’t have to pay to be there, but I had planned on getting them more exposure.
I know there were a few Kennels that did not get the proper exposure.
Cappo Kennels, didn’t get their sign for some reason.
We apologize to you guys, if you need a refund, get at me.
I know some performers did not get their chance to show off!
Lumba, Dynamic Certified, The Northern Southerners
We apologize for that.
I had been engulfed in so much negativity and so much drama, I never had a chance to have fun.
A show is a lot of work and anyone who does this, knows what I mean.
I think this one had even way more work!
In the end, the event cost close to $70,000.
It made around $28,000.
Yes it was a financial loss...
But..
After all the losses, fights, and negativity, there still was a success!
The night before the Expo I missed Grumpy Edges after party.
I was at the hotel getting ready to just throw in the towel and leave it up to the EE and Staff to finish the event.
Then Marco Suarez pulled up and started unloading his dogs...
I got to see the love he and his family had for their dogs and being at the event.
Then other people started pulling in to the hotel. People who didn’t own these dogs were coming up and loving the dogs.
People started coming around from all over the US and world...
The hotel became crowded with OUR people!
OUR people
Fabien from Remyline
Rich from WestCoast Gottiline
UKC judges who missed the UKC Nationals to attend this event!
You have no idea the LOVE and respect we saw in the parking lot that night.
People from North and South California kicking it and just enjoying the dogs!
This little town in VA became flooded with the dog people.
Even Bulldog breeders and Shorty Bull breeders were there!
You have no idea how beautiful it was to see this.
Months of fighting and negativity
Then in one night, so much love and respect for the breed, I forgot about everything bad that had happened!
The hotel became like a big family reunion!

[bluevalley]

continued....


I thank every single person that came there, you all made it all worth while!!!!!!!!!!
You all restored my faith!
The event went on even after the bad press and restrictions!
They still tried to shut us down at the door!
They had a few picketers.
They had their Animal Control at the door threatening to take any ones dogs who didn’t have their rabies certificates.
They took pictures of the dogs and searched for scars!
They sent in the DEA, Gang Task Force, Game Warden, Animal Control, and anyone else they could find.
Guess what...
After 2 hours, they all came up to me and apologized!
The police were shopping at vendor booths, the Gang Task force said they had no reason to be there, the Animal Control fell in love with the dogs!
The Expo Center owners and staff loved the event!
The picketers went home.
They even asked Paul Wall to go and perform!
Even though I told him to leave his show CD in the room, he would need it.
The press came and apologized to me and wrote a new positive article on the event!
(Even though the part he claimed I said, was untrue. I never said anything to him, I just introduced him to the booths. So the parts he claimed I said, I never did! I had already wrote my rebuttal the day before.)
Either way, I t was a two page article and 100% positive!
The Night Club even snuck us in and we had a great after party to ourselves!
Thanks to all who made it their.
Especially Len from Lycan Bloodlines!!! Big dog, you hooked it up!
Gloria Velez helped make it right too, all love to her for that!
Since this event I have had calls from Hotels thanking me, a City Council rep thanking me, The Expo Center, and many form our community.
Even after the financial loss, the drama, the negative publicity, the fights, and all the stress...
Was it a success?
Hell YES!
We came together, we united, we came from all over, all races, all bloodlines!
We overcame every fight against us, and we WON!
We had fun!
We respected each other and the breed.
It ended up 100% POSITIVE!!!!!!!
You tell me if that is not a success!
No one has anything bad to say, and a lot of people against us and the breed have now changed!
Believe me, it was worth it all to me now!
We Represented our breed and changed public perception.
I thank all of you who attended, you all made it a success, every last person!
You have my love and respect!
Anyone who has something negative to say...shut the hell up...your the problem
Nothing is ever perfect, but if it is a success for the breed, that’s all the perfection we need!
Keep the negativity out of our communities!
I got nothing but love for you all,
Thank you so much for the support
Respect

[bluevalley]

I'm done explaining this BS
I have one thing to say

Filing A False Statement Is A Double Edged Sword!!!!!!!

Meaning this entire claim is completely false!
The news paper will post the corrected version of what was said.

I'm done defending, now I will fight back
A petition anonymous or not, will still need a name behind it.
In a court of law, they will subpoena the people behind the claims.
I have saved all the comments from the 20 some boards we have been watching.
We have saved the names of everyone signing this petition.
Legal actions will take place.
My name and my kennels name has been slandered.
False accusations have been made.
A false claim has been filed.
At this time, there is no need for me to defend anything, no comments by me were made that imply any of these accusations.
I stay true to my word.
Razors Edge stays true to it's purity.
Legal recorses will be taken against everyone slandering my name, my kennel name, and making these false statements.
This is how the real explantion of the show and American Bully was said. Nothing was ever said about the Razors Edge Bloodline.

On October 7<SUP>th</SUP> in Fredericksburg Virginia a show will be held called, The Bully Convention. This event is to promote public awareness of a breed called, The American Bully.

David Wilson owner and founder of Razors Edge explains what the American Bully is and how it came to be.

The American Bully was created 15 years ago. This breed is a combination of two breeds, The UKC registered American Pit Bull Terrier (conformation show lines), and the AKC registered American Staffordshire Terrier. The breed was created to be an impressive built dog with the purpose of companionship.

The American Pit Bull Terrier is a breed created prior to the 1800’s. They were created by combining Bulldog types with certain Terrier types. The Bulldog was used for its loyalty, build, power, and strength. The Terrier was used for it’s drive, agility, and tenacity. By the 1800’s a breed was formed called The American Pit Bull Terrier. The American Staffordshire Terrier was a breed that spawned off the American Pit Bull Terrier. Its purpose was for conformation shows. This breed evolved into a bigger and mellower breed. The dog aggression had been bred out, and a new breed was created. The UKC registered American Pit Bull Terriers also followed in the American Staffordshire Terriers footsteps. The UKC registered American Pit Bull Terriers became conformation show dogs. The American Bully is a combination of both of these breeds. Breeders have been selectively breeding these dogs for over 15 years now. They bred for the bullier traits within the breed. (This by no means, means they mixed Bulldogs into the breed). What this means is that within the lineage they selectively chose dogs that had a bullier build and a more mellow demeanor. They didn’t want the tenacity of the Terrier lineage within the breed, nor the Terrier look within the breed. This created a bigger and mellower style of dog. These dogs have now taken on a different look and personality. Their purpose is to be the ultimate stable and loyal companions, and to be a physically and impressively built dog. The American Bully Kennel Club was established for this breed.

The Bully Convention on October 7<SUP>th</SUP> is for the promotion of this breed.



Dave Wilson and Razors Edge made no remarks to anything regarding the UKC registered Razors Edge bloodline.

This is the accurate explanation and statement


It is a shame the people in these breeds would pick apart a misquoted article to attack other people within this breed. They should have been glad that a successful event went down, and nothing but positive comments were made. Public perception was changed! Anyone who attended knows.

I am done defending myself for no reason.
We know the truth.
Razors Edge is 100% from American Pit Bull Terrier and American Staffordshire Terrier lineage.
That is the truth.

Let them speak on now and do what they do, I am ready to take legal recourses against anyone slandering my name and kennel name.

Thank you all for the support.
Please pass this on and fight to protect the truth.

Respect

[miakoda]

Oh come off it. He made the statement, now he's trying to backtrack. He's probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest, puppy peddler that ever lived. He encourages ruining a breed all to meet your latest fashion trend. He charges admission to events that are used by other bybs & peddlers to peddle pups/dogs (notice at the shows they still call them "pit bulls"!). All these events are are a "my penis is bigger than your penis" competition.

Not only do I NOT want his help (& really, he says he's giving money, but I want proof), but I will fight him tooth & nail.

Now, as a mod, I'm asking you politely to quit "yelling" & type your posts in a reasonable font size like everyone else. The only thing you accomplish by doing that is to have people skip over your posts completely.

EDIT: Upon having to fix those posts, I read some of that & http://www.pitbullforum.com/images/smiles/yucky.gif (javascript:emoticon(':yucky:')). Now he's a victim & trying to make himself be a martyr.

[simms]

Say what you will Bluevalley......I dont have anything against you personaly. However, those dogs are not bred to standard ......period.

The standard of the APBT is that of the gamedog!

[miakoda]

Oh, & Bluevalley, try reading a little more ;)


http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/102006/10062006/226864
Come see our gentle 'bullies,' unfairly savaged by a currish editorial

October 6, 2006 12:50 am

AS PRESIDENT of Razors <LINE />Edge and one of the <LINE />founders of the American Bully, I am appalled by your Oct. 3 editorial "Bully for the bulls?" Your statements are not only offensive but inaccurate.

The "Back 2 the Bullies" convention to be held tomorrow at the Fredericksburg Expo Center is not for the "celebration of the pit bull" as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the "pit bull."

We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it.

Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now.

The American Bully Kennel Club was created for the registry and promotion of this breed. These dogs have extremely mellow demeanors and were bred for the purpose of companionship. If you had researched the breed or the event, you might have learned more about what you were falsely commenting on.

We have been hosting these shows for more than four years now and have a great track record with major cities all over the United States. These events have all been a success, and people continue to request them in their areas. We have people flying in from all over the United States, and even confirmed guests from Japan, Italy, and the Philippines.

These events have been amazing for bringing all types of people together from all over the world--all races and all genders. The amount of public support has been overwhelming. For this area, the event is also helping the local economy. Three major hotels in this area are sold out, not to mention all the restaurants and pet stores that stand to gain business. Major pet stores, pet-feed companies, rescues, animal shelters, attorneys, and other organizations and individuals are backing and sponsoring this event.

To talk about this event in the context of young girls murdered by a serial killer is sick. How do you think the families of those children feel seeing that incident brought back up and being used in association with a dog show?

Then to talk about a sanctioned dog show in connection with a mauling by a pack of dogs running at large? The dogs that mauled Dorothy Sullivan weren't even pure pit bulls. But whatever breed they were, the tragedy has no correlation with this show. The poor woman who was mauled deserves more respect than to be brought into a commentary about a dog show. This entire editorial was plain sick.

At our event, the local animal control office maintains a booth with a donations box set up for its shelter. Also with booths are dog-rescue organizations that inform the public about all the dogs being put to sleep in shelters. Also at show we have a task force that seeks to bring to justice illegal dog fighters. We have a lady who runs programs in the low-income areas of major cities, and who helps underprivileged children through working with dogs.

We have five nonprofit organizations manning booths. As people from all over the world come to our event, we even have the local police department working there to ensure the safety of all patrons and participants.

At our event, nothing illegal is being promoted, permitted, or advertised. We have done no wrong at all. Our event simply seeks to certain promote a breed in a positive way.

Your editorial misinformed the public about the nature of "Back 2 the Bullies" and the breed it highlights.





DAVE WILSON of Spotsylvania County is president of Razor's Edge, the main company sponsoring tomorrow's Back 2 the Bullies convention.

[miakoda]

And you can't fight this one, because ALL those "bullies" he is talking about are currently registered as APBTs, sooooooo......... 1+1=2.

[bluevalley]

Sorry for the bold.....I just copied it & pasted....

I dont have any RE dogs, I did do a breeding to a 25% RE dog & unfortunately only had 2 pups & 1 went to the owner of the stud....But I just wanted everyone to see the actual article that supposed to have claimed he said he mixed his dogs.....It does not say that....I do think he is trying to put a postive view out there of his dogs & i think that is great! I do not own any "bully" dogs at all.......My newest puppy was only 6 lbs at 9 wks old......So I dont care for his large dogs at all, but he does seem to be trying to fight BSL & I do commend him on that!

[bluevalley]

Thanks for posting that article....I wondered where the mixing info came from.....lol....I had not seen that one....

Who knows if it is true or if the media messed w/ it....they do that alot.....especialy w/ pitbulls or claimed pitbull attacks....

[Attila]

Oh come off it. He made the statement, now he's trying to backtrack. He's probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest, puppy peddler that ever lived. He encourages ruining a breed all to meet your latest fashion trend. He charges admission to events that are used by other bybs & peddlers to peddle pups/dogs (notice at the shows they still call them "pit bulls"!). All these events are are a "my penis is bigger than your penis" competition.

Not only do I NOT want his help (& really, he says he's giving money, but I want proof), but I will fight him tooth & nail.

Now, as a mod, I'm asking you politely to quit "yelling" & type your posts in a reasonable font size like everyone else. The only thing you accomplish by doing that is to have people skip over your posts completely.

EDIT: Upon having to fix those posts, I read some of that & http://www.pitbullforum.com/images/smiles/yucky.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:emoticon(':yucky:')). Now he's a victim & trying to make himself be a martyr.
I second the http://www.pitbullforum.com/images/smiles/yucky.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:emoticon(':yucky:')) Lol.

[Pitbull219]

Now that my friend is the real deal. All about money. That is why we charge $15 for registry and I cull any member with a bs dog. Not only are they about money they don't give a crap about the breed. As long as the papers come with green backs they file them and go to the bank with a fat smile on their face. I have been to so many shows lately and seen dogs that don't even resemble APBT's and look damn near strait up ABD or Bull Mastiff. 120 pounders. You would think your at a tractor pull.Ya know, the wife and I were talking about some things a couple weeks back, and she suggested starting a new registry. We haven't quite figured how to go about it or anything really, just an idea we were kicking around. Maybe some of us folks could come together and discuss the idea more and come to a consensus regarding a written standard, and how we'd like to do business. With all the bitterness towards some of the major registries and the uncertainty of the integrity of many pedigrees and bloodlines, it may be a worthwhile challenge in my opinion. If anyone has any input or wants to discuss this further, drop me a pm.......

[Attila]

Ya know, the wife and I were talking about some things a couple weeks back, and she suggested starting a new registry. We haven't quite figured how to go about it or anything really, just an idea we were kicking around. Maybe some of us folks could come together and discuss the idea more and come to a consensus regarding a written standard, and how we'd like to do business. With all the bitterness towards some of the major registries and the uncertainty of the integrity of many pedigrees and bloodlines, it may be a worthwhile challenge in my opinion. If anyone has any input or wants to discuss this further, drop me a pm.......
Ours is 45 years old. Not really new but we stick to standards and only registar pure blood game dogs. period. . Your welcome to come into ours or I can try to set up one for you. Our fee's are still $15 life time Litter registrations are the same plus $1 per pup. I don't see any reason to raise prices either. I am very involved in the process and rules. Mutts don't have a chance with me as I am very militant on staying in the standards and am willing to cull any one from the club that violates the rules. We have over 4000 members. Not bad for a small club. If you look at the links in my sig you will see the delta sight. The write up in litters is of me. He said I sell pups but I tend not to and that price is for members only if I were to sell them. So far I have only done trades. My dogs only get places on working kennel yards. That is one of my main rules is that the dog is worked not used as a couch pet or anything illegal of course. Hunting is perfectly fine though. Any way check it out and let me know what help you need to get rolling. I am trying to get ours build up and running more compititions. So far the conformation and hunts is the main compititions. But we are developing a pull compititon also. More as new people come in with other skills.

[Pitbull219]

Oh, so you already have an established registry. That's great. I did not realize that. Expect a pm soon.....

[jdbpitbull]

ok is this just for the greyline pits and the razors edge? because i cant get my computer to bring up the site please someone let me know thanks alot