frisco

[J.W]

According to the sporting dog registry, FRISCO has 24 rom points, I talked to a man that has some good frisco blood from frisco's earlier breeding's before the FROZEN SEMEN!!!!!!. He told me that the frozen semen is gone. The money was just to good to say it was. He also said that 3 or 4 of the ROM points are probaly not even points frisco earned! They are points that Rebel yell, elmo , and i think Hickory tree earned, but not credited because it was supposibly a FRISCO breeding. So that goes to show that you never know what you are getting from the man known as TOM'' tha crook '' GARNERhttp://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif

[KnOck]

I heard that somewhere too. That Tom was using Hickory, Elmo and Rebel Yell to breed saying that the breedings were off the frozen semen. Thats really fucked up. A man who has plenty of money as it is and he tricks the public like that. But we all know the saying, "Money is the root of all evil!"

Knock 'Em Out

According to the sporting dog registry, FRISCO has 24 rom points, I talked to a man that has some good frisco blood from frisco's earlier breeding's before the FROZEN SEMEN!!!!!!. He told me that the frozen semen is gone. The money was just to good to say it was. He also said that 3 or 4 of the ROM points are probaly not even points frisco earned! They are points that Rebel yell, elmo , and i think Hickory tree earned, but not credited because it was supposibly a FRISCO breeding. So that goes to show that you never know what you are getting from the man known as TOM'' tha crook '' GARNERhttp://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif

[J M A N]

That's pretty much common knowledge. As I have said before......its really easy to become a ROM if you have f***ed every thing that would stand still long enough.



According to the sporting dog registry, FRISCO has 24 rom points, I talked to a man that has some good frisco blood from frisco's earlier breeding's before the FROZEN SEMEN!!!!!!. He told me that the frozen semen is gone. The money was just to good to say it was. He also said that 3 or 4 of the ROM points are probaly not even points frisco earned! They are points that Rebel yell, elmo , and i think Hickory tree earned, but not credited because it was supposibly a FRISCO breeding. So that goes to show that you never know what you are getting from the man known as TOM'' tha crook '' GARNERhttp://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif

[BONE]

That's pretty much common knowledge. As I have said before......its really easy to become a ROM if you have f***ed every thing that would stand still long enough.

I heard he was also using Doc Holiday...and thats who GR.CH.Shotsie is off of..

[bigmurfdogg]

you hear all kinds of rumors and most of them come from people who are jealous of tg and what frisco has produced.we all know he could produce and we really do not know how much semen garner had off frisco,i mean he was about 13 before he died and garner was one of the first to freeze his studs semen.well if he used frisco sons and still getting ch's,what should that tell you that he was a producer.but tg is the only one that knows how much of frisco's semen he had.well let's talk about how at least half of jeep's points were his brother ch. charlie's,that's what i thought jeep lovers! lol bigmurfdogg!

[ASA]

Good Point.but We All Know Jeep Was A Bad Mutha Fucka!!!

[Marty]

Good Point.but We All Know Jeep Was A Bad Mutha Fucka!!! Yea that's what I hear I'm (PROUD) of my jeep dog's they will survive! <TABLE borderColor=#ffffff cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=95 bgColor=#ffffff borderColorLight=#000000 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap align=middle>IMO IF YOU DON'T LIKE JEEP DOG'S</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cus/e_3_13.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)

[Redtail74]

How come everytime someone says something about frisco not producing all the dogs he is said to have produced someone else has to bring up jeep. I think everyone in the free world that has anything to do with these dogs has heard both stories time and time again. It's nothing new and theres nothing anyone can do about it now but make the best out of what we have today. I'm not trying to take a shot at anyone here so I hope no one takes it that way.

[bigmurfdogg]

i am not trying to take anything away from jeep,i don't know personally but from what i hear he was a bad mutha,i am just tired of tg. and frisco being the center of negativity.i love my chinaman/frisco dogs but i love the AMERICAN PITBULL TERRIER MORE! we are all men and should not take another man's opinion to heart.and REDTAIL74 i just thought since we were talking about rumors about frisco we needed to talk about other rumors as well! i am not in any way trying to take away from jeep's accomplishments but on the other hand chinaman and jeep were around at the same time AND CHINAMAN WAS OPEN TO THE WORLD FOR 2YRS WITH NOONE WANTING ANY PART OF THE OLD MAN!but imo jeep could have been open to because the match with homer showed us what jeep was made of!LOL BIGMURFDOGG

[bigmurfdogg]

[QUOTE=Marty]Yea that's what I hear I'm (PROUD) of my jeep dog's they will survive! <TABLE borderColor=#ffffff cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=95 bgColor=#ffffff borderColorLight=#000000 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap align=middle>IMO IF YOU DON'T LIKE JEEP DOG'S</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>i never said i didn't like jeep dogs i am just not really that fond of them,but jeep dogs just like frisco dogs have good and bad in them.well put it like this if chinaman and jeep were in a hunt who do you honestly think would have came out of the woods,i gave jeep his credit because he outhunted homer,but he did die after this match didn't he.but he still won and he deserves credit.imo i just think chinaman was a better dog than jeep because he could beat any dog at their own style and kill them in short order! i think chinaman was the best because was a freak and take any dog's style and beat them at their own style not many dogs today can adapt to the other's style and be better than them at it and them frustrate them so much they would try to do something else and we know that was a bad mistake because that would mark the end of their life.jeep was a bad mutha and there's no denying that,but i personally run the chinaman lines.don't get me wrong jeep was a great dog imo he ranked #2nd behind chinaman as one of the best ever,that's something i could never take from jeep because he went into top comp.MARTY I HOPE YOU DIDN'T TAKE WHAT I SAID THE WRONG WAY,BEACAUSE I SURE DID NOT TAKE WHAT YOU SAID THE WRONG WAY! LOL BIGMURFDOGG!(HEY I MIGHT EVEN LEARN SOMETHING FROM YOU MARTY THAT WHY I LOVE THIS BOARD SO MUCH,BECAUSE HERE WE TRY TO EDUCATE EACH OTHER)!

[Marty]

[QUOTE=Marty]Yea that's what I hear I'm (PROUD) of my jeep dog's they will survive! <TABLE borderColor=#ffffff cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=95 bgColor=#ffffff borderColorLight=#000000 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap align=middle>IMO IF YOU DON'T LIKE JEEP DOG'S</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>i never said i didn't like jeep dogs i am just not really that fond of them,but jeep dogs just like frisco dogs have good and bad in them.well put it like this if chinaman and jeep were in a hunt who do you honestly think would have came out of the woods,i gave jeep his credit because he outhunted homer,but he did die after this match didn't he.but he still won and he deserves credit.imo i just think chinaman was a better dog than jeep because he could beat any dog at their own style and kill them in short order! i think chinaman was the best because was a freak and take any dog's style and beat them at their own style not many dogs today can adapt to the other's style and be better than them at it and them frustrate them so much they would try to do something else and we know that was a bad mistake because that would mark the end of their life.jeep was a bad mutha and there's no denying that,but i personally run the chinaman lines.don't get me wrong jeep was a great dog imo he ranked #2nd behind chinaman as one of the best ever,that's something i could never take from jeep because he went into top comp.MARTY I HOPE YOU DIDN'T TAKE WHAT I SAID THE WRONG WAY,BEACAUSE I SURE DID NOT TAKE WHAT YOU SAID THE WRONG WAY! LOL BIGMURFDOGG!(HEY I MIGHT EVEN LEARN SOMETHING FROM YOU MARTY THAT WHY I LOVE THIS BOARD SO MUCH,BECAUSE HERE WE TRY TO EDUCATE EACH OTHER)!
No no... I didn't take what you said the wrong way, and I'm glad you didn't take what I said the wrong way. I was trying to be humorous :)

As far as Chinaman being number 1 and Jeep being number 2... nobody will ever truely know. I have seen more Jeep dogs than anything else, and most of them was better than average.

[Bubba]

Course breed a dog as many times as Jeep AND Frisco were (and still being bred in Frisco's case) and you are bound to be at the top of the ROM list. In my opinion, the ROM list or the POR list should be based solely on percentages...
BB

[blackbeard]

How much longer is it gonna take for some people to get over this topic?

[KnOck]

Sorry to say my brother, but some will never get over it...lolHow much longer is it gonna take for some people to get over this topic?

[BDK]

there will always be rumors in the game world lol and i have to add my 2 cents i talked to tom garner 2 weeks ago and he no longer markets the frisco frozen semen no that disappoints all you ppl lol but frisco is now no longer available for stud and frisco himself has been dead for almost 3 yrs

[Big River Kennels]

I like TG and unless you were there counting the frozen semen, you should not say anything, the man's record speaks for itself.

[bigmurfdogg]

i agree with you big river kennels tg has done alot for the game and just beacause he was still breeding frisco people are jealous,but if frisco was a cur who would care if he is selling frozen sperm off him,i mean he's a cur and why care ,curs don't produce do they?yeah that's what i thought people know he has thrown good with bad just like any other line.(mostly good) but the dealing i have had thru a mutual friend with tg he has been an honest person and someone who has always imo tried to make sure you understand what you were getting and if things didn't work out you could bring the dog back and he would try to please you! one thing can say about him is that he doesn't like bullshitters and can spot one a mile away.oh yeah what's up bdk i am from frisco's homestate and garner no longer has frozen semen off frisco!(the point i was trying to make was that if tg was still selling frozen semen off frisco and he was a cur and was producing curs and i was the competition i would be like keep breeding curs that would make it easier for the others,but that is not the case and that why people have so much negativity towards tg and frisco!

[who]

I like the frisco dogs (on paper) but there is alot of constoversy about them Anyone have pups off ELMO and the others if so how are they acting or have they already been proven? thats the only way that this dispute will come to an end in the future IF the dogs still show the CONSISTENCY then ill prolly get one but till then im still a little cautious ...........

[Crash97]

I've got one off Elmo x Black Mary, but she's too young to really see anything.

[pitbullpride]

I've got an (almost) three year old son of Elmo, bred to Dolly II. He's fantastic!

[tko001]

I have a daughter of Chinadawg. Chinadawg is a son of frisco. He's 12 yrs old now. I decided to go with an older son of frisco to make sure to avoid this type of controversy. Considering some registries say that wouldn't register a frisco dog because tg wouldn't send in the DNA. She's only 14 months old but acting good on the chain like she want's it. but only time will tell.


http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=135039


yis,

tko001

[SFK]

JMO but I would take her to an Earl Jr. male. If you wanted to tighten up the Chinaman.

[tko001]

Actually I'm going to breed her to my bolio/buck male to see how that add to the equation. He's an all around bulldog:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=71717

tko

[mutt]

big murff why does a dogg have to be a freak if he does what he does well...lol

[mutt]

can any body tell me about osonegro...could he scratch

[DEACON ROM]

oso negro was a cold ass dog! wouldnt bite into a slim jim lol

[mutt]

tell me more bout ninja gurl

[Big River Kennels]

First off if you don't have proof and you put it on here that is libel. if you have a sibling and think that frisco is not the sire then get it DNA'd. that will tell the truth. TG is one of the prominent dogmen of modern day. His reputation is impeccable. You can say what you want, but if you do, make sure you can "put your money where your mouth is" with that being said just be careful cause that is Libel. it can cost a lot of money. especially in a public forum, if you have something to say about someone it should be in a PM. not a post.
[QUOTE=Marty]Yea that's what I hear I'm (PROUD) of my jeep dog's they will survive! <TABLE borderColor=#ffffff cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=95 bgColor=#ffffff borderColorLight=#000000 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap align=middle>IMO IF YOU DON'T LIKE JEEP DOG'S</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>i never said i didn't like jeep dogs i am just not really that fond of them,but jeep dogs just like frisco dogs have good and bad in them.well put it like this if chinaman and jeep were in a hunt who do you honestly think would have came out of the woods,i gave jeep his credit because he outhunted homer,but he did die after this match didn't he.but he still won and he deserves credit.imo i just think chinaman was a better dog than jeep because he could beat any dog at their own style and kill them in short order! i think chinaman was the best because was a freak and take any dog's style and beat them at their own style not many dogs today can adapt to the other's style and be better than them at it and them frustrate them so much they would try to do something else and we know that was a bad mistake because that would mark the end of their life.jeep was a bad mutha and there's no denying that,but i personally run the chinaman lines.don't get me wrong jeep was a great dog imo he ranked #2nd behind chinaman as one of the best ever,that's something i could never take from jeep because he went into top comp.MARTY I HOPE YOU DIDN'T TAKE WHAT I SAID THE WRONG WAY,BEACAUSE I SURE DID NOT TAKE WHAT YOU SAID THE WRONG WAY! LOL BIGMURFDOGG!(HEY I MIGHT EVEN LEARN SOMETHING FROM YOU MARTY THAT WHY I LOVE THIS BOARD SO MUCH,BECAUSE HERE WE TRY TO EDUCATE EACH OTHER)!

[Big River Kennels]

TG owns the SDR!!!According to the sporting dog registry, FRISCO has 24 rom points, I talked to a man that has some good frisco blood from frisco's earlier breeding's before the FROZEN SEMEN!!!!!!. He told me that the frozen semen is gone. The money was just to good to say it was. He also said that 3 or 4 of the ROM points are probaly not even points frisco earned! They are points that Rebel yell, elmo , and i think Hickory tree earned, but not credited because it was supposibly a FRISCO breeding. So that goes to show that you never know what you are getting from the man known as TOM'' tha crook '' GARNERhttp://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif

[Big River Kennels]

Another thing the hickory blood is really coming out according to some of the latest info from TG.

[CK-1]

According to the sporting dog registry, FRISCO has 24 rom points, I talked to a man that has some good frisco blood from frisco's earlier breeding's before the FROZEN SEMEN!!!!!!. He told me that the frozen semen is gone. The money was just to good to say it was. He also said that 3 or 4 of the ROM points are probaly not even points frisco earned! They are points that Rebel yell, elmo , and i think Hickory tree earned, but not credited because it was supposibly a FRISCO breeding. So that goes to show that you never know what you are getting from the man known as TOM'' tha crook '' GARNERhttp://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif
Well, TG is a personal friend of mine and I can tell you one thing frisco does not have 24 ROM points...HE HAS 28! secondly, T.G. never had to lie about frozen semen from Frisco...That is just plain and utter bullshit! I don't like to start shit but I get tired of seeing people talk shit about a man that most of you could never measure up to! Tom Garner is probably one of the greatest things to ever happen to the game dog! I am not on his nutts but I have to give a man credit where credit is due.... Tom has probably made the greatest impact on the game dogs of today over any other current breeder. The man is not your avrage run of the mill puppy pedeler...Chinaman was actually taken to Stanford University for study, the things that were found about that dog would blow you away! Frisco was looked at by vinney,Tom and a few other very well respected dog men...It was said that Frisco is the only dog they ever seen that had more ability than CH Chinaman Rom...That my friends is the ONLY reason Frisco was never matched... They saw what he was about, they didn't need to prove anything to anyone! Why do you think Elmo was never taken to CH??? same reason, he was far too valueble as a stud dog to take years off his life by matching him....how many years do you think one match knocks off of a dogs life? again, no offense intended, I just get pissed when people talk shit about TG behind his back...

[5555]

tg owns took over murphys magizines when it was in the works of coming out, it is totally bias on the frisco dogs, hence the reason i never renewed my subscription. he had some good articles when he wasnt going on and on trying to influence people to get his frisco dogs.

i have a grad daughter of elmo by way of proline's pugsley, and personally i have passed on free frisco ai dogs. the little bitch i have bred down from elmo is a outstanding little bitch but i will never breed her back to any frisco dogs. i just dont want to breed back into the possible fraud pedigreed dogs. is it true? who knows? but it is true garner denied the adba of dna proof of the ai semen being used and labelled as frisco semen.

as for frisco being the top rom dog, a poodle could get rom and be at the top of the list if it had as many offspring as frisco.

as far as rom and por not being acurate and there needing to be a system based on percentages. i agree with this completley but it wouldnt ever work out as dogs are lost to the breeder very easily as often as some dogs are sold to others during their lives.

this is just my opinion though take it for what it is worth

[SFK]

I totally agree about the Journal! But I tell you I have'nt found any breed books or magazines that don't suffer from acute Kennel Blindness.

[DEACON ROM]

"as for frisco being the top rom dog, a poodle could get rom and be at the top of the list if it had as many offspring as frisco."


lol prove it! lol

[O.D.]

CK YOU ARE 100% CORRECTAMUNDO. IF YOUR REALLY HAVE SPENT ANY TIME IN THE GAME YOU KNOW THE MAN'S CONTRIBUTIONS TO IT. PERIOD. BULLDOGS ON THE NET IS ONE HE CONTRIBUTED TO GREATLY. I WON'T EVEN GO INTO SPECIFICS. DON'T GET ME WRONG THE MAN IS PROBABLY NOT A SAINT, NON OF US ARE. I HAVE OWNED FRISCO DOGS THAT QUIT. BUT DOGS QUIT FROM ALL LINES. WHAT I AM ADDRESSING IS THE FACT THAT THE MAN IS A LIVING LEGEND AND SHOULD BE GIVEN THE RESPECT. DON'T GET PERSONAL WITH IT. HE HAS BRED AND BOUGHT SOME OF THE BEST DOGS FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF CREATING AND MAINTAING A LEGACY WITH THESE BULLDOGS. DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH. THE MAN HAS DONE ALOT FOR THE GAME. RECOGNIZE IT.

RELEASE YOUR DOG,

O.D.

[JC-Pitbulls]

Everyone has their own opinion, but the fact is T.G. has probably produced more good dogs than any of us on here.Regardless who they are off of.

[SLICK WILLIE]

How can anyone know what has been bred to what unless you know every dog in the pedigree and how it looked. If everyone wants to count points from a dog and not just the bullshit mags that people print lets think about Baily's Bingo and he dont even get the credit. Alot of people breed to Bingo and the blood was hot. I have some Frisco and I know its the real deal cause the dogs off him are old and Tom is comming back to them to breed. But what ever the case with it I know the dogs I have is coming hard. If you have any doubts about what Hic.T Throws its commin hard to so who cares what the ROM or the POR says if the dogs go to work then you got what you wanted. I dont want to piss anyone off! "Yea Right" but stop looking for the shortfalls or the flaws in other breeders. If you dont trust how a dog is bred dont get it. I dont deal with anyone that has a name or a public name in the dog world. The unknown dogman that has been doing it for years and keeps his pride out of it. The unknown dogman knows how to breed the damn things and keeps the breed strong. The unknown dogman that has a son of frisco has something that Tom WANTS back!!!

[HCK]

The 2 most things that people hate Tom for..... kinda contradict themselves IMO. 1)People say that he is the worlds biggest peddler.2)Any dog thats been bred as much as frisco would have to hit ROM status. The reason that I think these two comments cotradict one another is simply because...if he is such a peddler(which he really is, and I'm only speaking truth and not hating) most of the frisco line is going to non-working kennels resulting in a lot of wasted breedings. Therefore he may have been bred lots but credit wasn't given due to some breedings simply because they were in the wrong hands. JMO(no pun intended)
P.S. T.G. stopped his "Frisco breedings" a year ago. How can anyone know what has been bred to what unless you know every dog in the pedigree and how it looked. If everyone wants to count points from a dog and not just the bullshit mags that people print lets think about Baily's Bingo and he dont even get the credit. Alot of people breed to Bingo and the blood was hot. I have some Frisco and I know its the real deal cause the dogs off him are old and Tom is comming back to them to breed. But what ever the case with it I know the dogs I have is coming hard. If you have any doubts about what Hic.T Throws its commin hard to so who cares what the ROM or the POR says if the dogs go to work then you got what you wanted. I dont want to piss anyone off! "Yea Right" but stop looking for the shortfalls or the flaws in other breeders. If you dont trust how a dog is bred dont get it. I dont deal with anyone that has a name or a public name in the dog world. The unknown dogman that has been doing it for years and keeps his pride out of it. The unknown dogman knows how to breed the damn things and keeps the breed strong. The unknown dogman that has a son of frisco has something that Tom WANTS back!!!

[SLICK WILLIE]

I myself dont know Mr. Tom Garner but I deal with the people that buy from him and I know the dogs they get are culled if they dont make the grade. Mr. Garner made his name in the bulldog world and I hope I can make half the impact he has on the breed but it takes a bit of time to do so. I just want good bulldogs that go to work and I have a few but money is a factor for making a name for them if you know what I mean "Takes money to make money". I would just as well give pups away for a few bags of dogfood just to have people go through my pups and tell me how they perform when they come of age. Simple man with a simple plan.