Is This For Real???

[Montana250]

I was reading an article on puppy biting and the trainer listed 3 methods he uses to stop hard biting. The first 2 I have seen in several articles. They are the standard "Ouch" to let the pup know it hurts and leaving the room long enough to let the pup know your upset. The 3rd method he lists is "grabbing the puppy by both cheeks, lifting him off the ground to eye level, and yelling "NO"! Now, this trainer sells tapes and supposedly has been raising dogs for 25 years.

First off...NO, I am not going to apply this method but I am wondering how bad of an effect this could have on one's pet. For some reason, I can see certain backyard breeders applying this method. Has anyone heard of this before and does it just "sound" bad???

[catcher T]

it depends on the breed,,non-working dogs,,or pet dogs,,when they are puppies don't need this kind of extreme training,,I wouldn't play these kinds of games where I leave the room,,hide or whatever

[Defend2DaEnd]

Worse has been done to dogs than lifting them off the ground. In my case biting even as a young puppy is not exceptable. I flip them on their back and tell them no if that doesn't work they get a good thump on the nose.

[Montana250]

Well, how about the repercussions of continually doing this? I imagine this will leave the dog yelping for some time after you put him down. Will this cause him to fear/hate you?

[pepper_mommy]

i smack pepper's ass, that is all that works for her. she rolls over immediately b/c she knows i am done playing around. but yeah, that seems kinda rough...i would think it would enlist fear in your dog....but i dont exactly want them to obey b/c they fear me, i want them to just understand the pecking order.

[Red_Chrome]

I bet you that method is off the Leerburg site. I don't like some of his training methods. That's just me.

[Sid Finster]

What don't you like about Leereburg's training methods? I am just gathering information, I do not have a dog in this fight or a bone to pick, metaphorically speaking.

[Riptora]

I love Leereburg. Lets not forget this man has been breeding and training some serious working dogs for years. Dogs are bred and trained to overpower humans. His site is not for families looking to train their toy poodle, his site is specifically for his clients and others involved in his types of sports/training. He does however offer advise on dogs who are unstable and in need of serious and immediate corrections. There is a huge difference between raising a dog born to do this and raising a pug from the pet store.

It's the same with training equipment. I would never consider using a prong collar on certain dogs, not that these collars cause any physical harm, but because it is excessive for many dogs.

Breed, genetics and temperment have everything to do with what kind of training methods you use.

BTW, you think that is bad? Read some Koehler books, now that man is extreme.

[14rock]

Never picked a bulldog up by its cheeks? Its great fun. LOL They dont mind one bit, think its a game,sit there wagging their tail licking your face. I wouldnt try it on other breeds, with less of a pain-tolerance though. And I've never used that as any sort of training, just for fun.

[laurajean]

One thing I have learned is that all dogs are different and what works on some may not work on others...I read Koehler...he could train dogs...that's for sure. I think his extreme methods were for extreme dogs...
I think the best trainers are those that are willing to evaluate the particular dog and tailor their methods to that dog, just like the best human teachers. It's not a "one size fits all" sorta thing.

[Red_Chrome]

I love Leereburg. Lets not forget this man has been breeding and training some serious working dogs for years. Dogs are bred and trained to overpower humans. His site is not for families looking to train their toy poodle, his site is specifically for his clients and others involved in his types of sports/training. He does however offer advise on dogs who are unstable and in need of serious and immediate corrections. There is a huge difference between raising a dog born to do this and raising a pug from the pet store.

It's the same with training equipment. I would never consider using a prong collar on certain dogs, not that these collars cause any physical harm, but because it is excessive for many dogs.

Breed, genetics and temperment have everything to do with what kind of training methods you use.

BTW, you think that is bad? Read some Koehler books, now that man is extreme.
I said I disagreed with SOME of his training methods. Others I really like. Yes, I have picked a bulldog up be her cheeks, If she could laugh I know she would have. He has bred soem serious working dogs for serious people. I am thinking of buying one of his Malinois next year. He is a great guy and will answer all sorts of stupid questions thrown at him. I just disagree with some of his training methods. I actually love Koehler and have quite a few of his books. He is extreme but if you need that then his methods work very well. I have actually used some of Koehler and Leerburg's methods. I wasn't trying to bash him or anything because I really do like some of his methods.

[ABK]

Kohler & Leerburg methods not for the average pet person. In fact, Kohler calls most pet ppl "mealy-mouthed" b/c they don't have the cahones to really discpline their dog.

They use Kohler's methods in the military, at least they did when I was in (late '90s) & I have used Kohler's methods on my dogs & seen them used on others. Heck, if you saw how they train military working dogs some of you pet ppl on this board would have an all-out pee-in-your-pants coniption. But hard dogs require hard methods & while some of you may not agree w/ them, Kohler & Leerburg's methods work & from what I've seen they work well.

As for the cheek thing, I have done it & it works. No, it does not hurt the pup. I have never even had one let out a whimper. All it does it scare them out of their air-headed ways & give them a dose of reality.

It does not have any long term adverse effects either. In fact, most pups have forgotten the correction in 5 minutes & are back to playing & being little terrors!

[kjf85]

I've never done that, but the breeder that we got our pups form said to pick them up by th back of their necks and give them a shake (not a hard shake but enough for them to realize it) he said that this is the way that their mother would dicipline them and that he has seen his dogs do this to puppies. It lets the puppy know that its done something wrong. I tried it on one of ours and at times it would work on smaller things she was doing wrong, but if it was something she was dead set on something it wouldn't work- so it worked most of the time except for the occasional -"i'm not listenng to you or paying attention to you" puppy attitude

[ABK]

I've never done that, but the breeder that we got our pups form said to pick them up by th back of their necks and give them a shake (not a hard shake but enough for them to realize it) he said that this is the way that their mother would dicipline them and that he has seen his dogs do this to puppies. It lets the puppy know that its done something wrong. I tried it on one of ours and at times it would work on smaller things she was doing wrong, but if it was something she was dead set on something it wouldn't work- so it worked most of the time except for the occasional -"i'm not listenng to you or paying attention to you" puppy attitudeThe cheek lift does the same thing, except it's safer. I have been told by vets to never scruff shake a pup. There are other ways of canine correction that are less dangerous. A scruff shake - even a mild one - can at best subluxate the vertibrae & can at worst fracture it's neck.

[Red_Chrome]

They use Kohler's methods in the military, at least they did when I was in (late '90s) & I have used Kohler's methods on my dogs & seen them used on others. Heck, if you saw how they train military working dogs some of you pet ppl on this board would have an all-out pee-in-your-pants coniption. But hard dogs require hard methods & while some of you may not agree w/ them, Kohler & Leerburg's methods work & from what I've seen they work well.

I know that their methods work, I have had to use them on my other dog. He is not an APBT. He is a very hard dog and if someone other than me corrects him they better watch out because he WILL bite you, It's not a matter of if. I manage him quite well, well enough to get his CGC cert. but that's it. He hates men and has bitten a guy before(long story, guy was in the wrong). I have used soem methods on him that would make people on here blow up. He is what he is and you have to what you have to do to manage him. He has gotten better the older he gets. All he is doing is living out his happy life, eating and sleeping and doing some obedience to keep him sharp. You think some of your guys' dogs are hard. I'd give my soul for one of them compared to him. I do use osme of their methods and am not squeamish about them, I just don't agree with some of them.

[ABK]

I know that their methods work, I have had to use them on my other dog. He is not an APBT. He is a very hard dog and if someone other than me corrects him they better watch out because he WILL bite you, It's not a matter of if. I manage him quite well, well enough to get his CGC cert. but that's it. He hates men and has bitten a guy before(long story, guy was in the wrong). I have used soem methods on him that would make people on here blow up. He is what he is and you have to what you have to do to manage him. He has gotten better the older he gets. All he is doing is living out his happy life, eating and sleeping and doing some obedience to keep him sharp. You think some of your guys' dogs are hard. I'd give my soul for one of them compared to him. I do use osme of their methods and am not squeamish about them, I just don't agree with some of them.Oh yah, I know what you mean. If some ppl here (& elsewhere) knew how we broke one of our past Rotts from his dominance aggression using Kohler methods we learned in the military they'd scream to the high heavens. But it worked & you gotta do what you gotta do. But like you said, you can't be squeamish. ;)

[Red_Chrome]

Yeah I hear you. we actually had to put a very well-bred nice rottie to sleep becasue I couldn't get him over his Dominance Aggression, I tried all of leerburg's and Koehlers methods, me nor my parents could break him of it so off to a nice place he went.

[Riptora]

Koehler used to train the trainers of the military. I think he's nuts though, maybe not back then becuase he's ancient and things were different, but I think there are better alternatives to many of his ways.
I love Leerburg, he can be harsh but not as bad near as Koehler and he is very clear on what kinds of behaviors require what levels of corrections. He worked in the law enforcement field with canines.

I don't think anyone was bashing, I'm just saying that there are so many different ways of teaching a dog that you should shop around until you find what you feel comfortable with for YOUR dog. No one knows your dog better than you, just make sure that you recognize the severity of some dog's behavioral faults.

[Sid Finster]

I live in Russia, so if some of the pet owners heard some of the techniques army and KGB trainers use....

Some of the methods these folks use make Koehler look like a PETA activist.