Why SO many Dogs ! ?

[Liza111]

Sorry if this may come across the wrong way!

Since I joined I have noticed that So many people on this site own SO Many dogs & I don't mean just 2 or 3, it's almost as if it's the cool thing tho do.

Now I know there's TONS people who are doing it to help save dogs & just to give them good homes but I know many of the people are not doing it for the same reason.

[MR BIGGS]

I only own 2 now but once I move I'll probably get a yard full just because I love bully bred dogs, not to breed. Each dog is used for something different. One group of dogs may be weightpullers, some may be just because they came from a good line. Others may be great for show. These are my reasons for wanting so many dogs.

[Liza111]

I only own 2 now but once I move I'll probably get a yard full just because I love bully bred dogs, not to breed. Each dog is used for something different. One group of dogs may be weightpullers, some may be just because they came from a good line. Others may be great for show. These are my reasons for wanting so many dogs.

I can understand that but SO many?
I just think some people have so (too many) many & most of them are stuck in cages or just tied up or what ever cuz there's no room.


I don't know, I mean don't get me wrong I would Love to have tons TOO but only if I had TONS of room, like maybe lived on a farm.

[lonesharkpits]

We have quite a few dogs, but we make sure that we only have as many as we can take care of properly and spend the adiquite amount of time with. We have quite a few because we have some that are show dogs, some that are weight pull dogs, and 2 rescues. We try not to keep dogs that we don't show or weight pull, unless it is due to them getting older. All of our dogs will stay here forever, unless we feel that we do not have time enough for them. As long as you can properly take care of them, it is very easy to fall in love with this breed and keep wanting more.

[Liza111]

We have quite a few dogs, but we make sure that we only have as many as we can take care of properly and spend the adiquite amount of time with. We have quite a few because we have some that are show dogs, some that are weight pull dogs, and 2 rescues. We try not to keep dogs that we don't show or weight pull, unless it is due to them getting older. All of our dogs will stay here forever, unless we feel that we do not have time enough for them. As long as you can properly take care of them, it is very easy to fall in love with this breed and keep wanting more.

Oh Believe me I KNOW it's Addicting, I am a Sucker for puppies & every time I see a Pit pup I instantly fall in Love!

[Bullyboi]

I think people have alot of dogs because like you have said it is addicting. Why just have 2 or 4 if you could have 8-10 and use them all for different purposes wether it be show or weightpull ect ect. I plan to have a yard with atleast 5-6 dogs but i would be happy for now with 2 as i have only have 1 dog. it seems like alot of work to clean,care, feed, secure a whole yard but it seems worth it. I think my reason to have a yard of dogs will be just because i have a great love for bulldogs. They are the best breed IMO and i plan to do something with each dog. Also people may have more than a few dogs because they may have bred a litter and kept most of the pups and not have sold them to the public.. Just my 2cents

EDIT*of course if you have this many dogs they each should get time spent with them and be excersize although for some bulldogs working the chain keeps em in shape.

[RED GATOR]

I know what you are saying. I have one 6 month old pit. I would like to have more but how can you have time with all of these dogs. I spend as much time as possible with my dog and he stays in the house because I live in vegas and it gets extremely hot. I think a lot of these dogs suffer when they just stay in there kennel all day and all night because people have so many. They love to spend time with people and when you have to many dogs how do give them the time they need

[lonesharkpits]

I know what you are saying. I have one 6 month old pit. I would like to have more but how can you have time with all of these dogs. I spend as much time as possible with my dog and he stays in the house because I live in vegas and it gets extremely hot. I think a lot of these dogs suffer when they just stay in there kennel all day and all night because people have so many. They love to spend time with people and when you have to many dogs how do give them the time they needBelieve it or not, but you get a schedule and a routine down pretty quickly. After just a little while it becomes easy. It is like second nature to us now. Each dog has a particular day that is it's personal time with us. We take them somewhere, play with them, work them, and spend all the time we can with them. Granted that it does change your life completely. We no longer can go on a vacation, unless it is to a dog show or something. I have people that I trust to take care of our dogs, but I would still worry myself to death. Believe me though, it is worth every bit of it.
You must have time, patience, money, and lots and lots of love for these dogs in order to make it work.

[Defend2DaEnd]

Lisa- A lot of breeders on here keep working stock. They have many dogs because you have to keep them until they are 12-18 months before you know if they are worth feeding. Now some keep them because they are rescues and there are far more rescues than homes. Those who work their dogs collect the good ones and cull the ones that don't work into their breeding program. It's all about striving for the perfect dog. The more dogs you have the more likely to produce one. Which is okay as long as you are culling and keeping.

[lonesharkpits]

Lisa- A lot of breeders on here keep working stock. They have many dogs because you have to keep them until they are 12-18 months before you know if they are worth feeding. Now some keep them because they are rescues and there are far more rescues than homes. Those who work their dogs collect the good ones and cull the ones that don't work into their breeding program. It's all about striving for the perfect dog. The more dogs you have the more likely to produce one. Which is okay as long as you are culling and keeping.Well Said!!!

[Liza111]

I know what you are saying. I have one 6 month old pit. I would like to have more but how can you have time with all of these dogs. I spend as much time as possible with my dog and he stays in the house because I live in vegas and it gets extremely hot. I think a lot of these dogs suffer when they just stay in there kennel all day and all night because people have so many. They love to spend time with people and when you have to many dogs how do give them the time they need

YES Exactly!
I'm happy to know someone else see's what I mean.

I have 2 pups, I work full time & by the time I get home it's just about 6 & have the normal every day responsibilites (just like anyone). I barely have enough time to take care of the normal stuff, I couldn't imagion having like 4 or 5 dogs, where would U put them all? Kenneled or tied up out side all day while at work.


Like I said b4, I think a lot of people just get so many cuz it makes them feel cool, Not saying they don't love the dogs but there's no reason to have so many if there not being taken care of or stuck any ware cuz there's no room.

[Liza111]

Lisa- A lot of breeders on here keep working stock. They have many dogs because you have to keep them until they are 12-18 months before you know if they are worth feeding. Now some keep them because they are rescues and there are far more rescues than homes. Those who work their dogs collect the good ones and cull the ones that don't work into their breeding program. It's all about striving for the perfect dog. The more dogs you have the more likely to produce one. Which is okay as long as you are culling and keeping.

What do U mean (before U know if they are worth feeding) ?
What is Culling?


Well I guess I'm not into the whole breeding thing, just want some pups to Love :)

[Stillwater]

Just remeber, too some folks 1 dog is too many.
I don't think people should have more than they can care for, but not ALL dogs are pets.Some are working dogs and some make terrible pets, so keep that in mind.
When I breed two animals its for a purpose, and being pets isn't it.If they make good pets thats fine, but not all people who have or own dogs have them for the purpose of being pets.

[pepper_mommy]

Culling is to kill one, and 12-18 months is when they come into character and you know for sure if you have a good dog that is useful or a HA dog, or sometimes even health issues dont start until that age, and thats when you cull them....if not done at puppyhood by breeders. its a way of weeding out the bad apples and not keeping a bad dog for selfish reasons.

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

defend just pretty much described how serious dogmen keep a yard but what was left out is that they are also well loved pets.i have 14 at this point and time and i can find time to spend with them everyday,and they are cared for as best as anyone could ever do.now what defend was meaning by worth feeding is are they worthy of your breeding program because people who like to raise working stock dont want to take up space and spend money on a dog that is not of the quailty you are looking for,when they could spay/neuter that dog and adopt it out or give it away to a nice home,and in the process make room for another prospect that would fit the standard that you have set for your breeding program.alot of folks do get disturbed at times when they here dogmen talk like we do but we are just so used to talking amongst other dogmen,but dont worry you will pick up and what some of the words and phrases mean the more you are on here.now culling just means that you do not use a paticular animal in your breeding program and you spay/neuter it and give it away to someone,but back in the old days and sometimes today when a animal was culled it was put down because it reflected badly on the line that you are breeding.and you only wanted the best of the best out there because the dog is a work of art so to speak with your name on it.

[Liza111]

Just remeber, too some folks 1 dog is too many.
I don't think people should have more than they can care for, but not ALL dogs are pets.Some are working dogs and some make terrible pets, so keep that in mind.
When I breed two animals its for a purpose, and being pets isn't it.If they make good pets thats fine, but not all people who have or own dogs have them for the purpose of being pets.
Can ask what U do w/ your dogs if their not pets?

[Liza111]

Culling is to kill one, and 12-18 months is when they come into character and you know for sure if you have a good dog that is useful or a HA dog, or sometimes even health issues dont start until that age, and thats when you cull them....if not done at puppyhood by breeders. its a way of weeding out the bad apples and not keeping a bad dog for selfish reasons.
Wait a minute............so you telling me someone will KILL a dog after a while if they decide it doesn't meet the persons standards????


PLEASE tell me I am miss understanding (Culling)

[WWII]

Culling is to kill one, and 12-18 months is when they come into character and you know for sure if you have a good dog that is useful or a HA dog, or sometimes even health issues dont start until that age, and thats when you cull them....if not done at puppyhood by breeders. its a way of weeding out the bad apples and not keeping a bad dog for selfish reasons.
Not necessary to kill, but it can also mean to make them unable to reproduce. And like stillwater said, not all dogs are pets.

[lonesharkpits]

When we cull dogs, to us that just simply means to find them another suitable home. If they don't need to be bred, then we spay/neuter them and rehome them. We never put dogs to sleep unless they show human aggression or there is a health problem that where we had no other option.

[Liza111]

Not necessary to kill, but it can also mean to make them unable to reproduce. And like stillwater said, not all dogs are pets.
Sorry for being so forward but if someone Kills a dog cuz there not working out to the persons standards that's just BULLSHIT!

[WWII]

Sorry for being so forward but if someone Kills a dog cuz there not working out to the persons standards that's just BULLSHIT!Some may think that you're way of thinking is BS, too.
"You can always trust death to take care of your dog." That's more to say than some people out there.

[Liza111]

When we cull dogs, to us that just simply means to find them another suitable home. If they don't need to be bred, then we spay/neuter them and rehome them. We never put dogs to sleep unless they show human aggression or there is a health problem that where we had no other option.

Ok well that makes much more sence than killing a dog but I still don't understand what the point is to have a dog in the first place just give it away.

[lonesharkpits]

We don't have dogs just to have them. We show, weight pull, and breed on occasion. We strive to better the breed by producing work dogs. If we have dogs that are not suitable for reproduction or don't turn out to be what we are looking for, then we decide what is best for them.

[Liza111]

Some may think that you're way of thinking is BS, too.
Some may think MY way of thinking is BS?

So your telling me that KILLING a dog just because they don't meet someones standards is just fine & dandy?


Yeah I don't think so, unless the dog is MEAN there's NO reason for it.

[Liza111]

"You can always trust death to take care of your dog." That's more to say than some people out there.

That's the MOST insane thing I have ever heard!

There's Plenty of people out there that can give a dog a Good home & Life.

[Stillwater]

Can ask what U do w/ your dogs if their not pets?
Showing,working livestock, and hunting.

I cull hard, and if they don't meet my requirements, I have them euthanized.

If you want a pet, get one from a pet breeder.Thats not to say that my dogs won't make a good pet, but thats not a requirement of mine for breeding them.

If you can't cull, then you damn sure shouldn't breed.If anyone thinks culling is isolated to APBT breeders, you don't have a clue.

[Liza111]

We don't have dogs just to have them. We show, weight pull, and breed on occasion. We strive to better the breed by producing work dogs. If we have dogs that are not suitable for reproduction or don't turn out to be what we are looking for, then we decide what is best for them.

I can understand what your saying:)
As long as the dogs are not being put to death . (Generally speaking)

[cemoreno]

They would only cull the dog if it just so happened to be HA (Human Agressive), had a gentic defect, was to weak, had chronic skin problems because of allergies that would have been a lifetime ordeal, etc... Good breeders keep only the best of the breed so that the breed survives and stays strong, healthy, even tempered, and defect free breed. Now the dogs that were tempermently stable and would make wonderful pets, but they just weren't breeding material they would adopt out to a familys based on a spay and neuter contract. You see it's not as heartless as you thought now was it.

[lonesharkpits]

That's the MOST insane thing I have ever heard!

There's Plenty of people out there that can give a dog a Good home & Life.
Unfortunately, in some cases what he sayd is true. It is the cold hard fact, especially with this breed.

[Liza111]

Showing,working livestock, and hunting.

I cull hard, and if they don't meet my requirements, I have them euthanized.

If you want a pet, get one from a pet breeder.Thats not to say that my dogs won't make a good pet, but thats not a requirement of mine for breeding them.

If you can't cull, then you damn sure shouldn't breed.If anyone thinks culling is isolated to APBT breeders, you don't have a clue.


So let me just make sure I have this Right.

U breed dogs for: Showing,working livestock, and hunting, right?
U breed the dogs & if U decide they aren't working out for what U want them for (Showing,working livestock, and hunting) etc. then U Cull them?


Is that how it all works?

[Liza111]

They would only cull the dog if it just so happened to be HA (Human Agressive), had a gentic defect, was to weak, had chronic skin problems because of allergies that would have been a lifetime ordeal, etc... Good breeders keep only the best of the breed so that the breed survives and stays strong, healthy, even tempered, and defect free breed. Now the dogs that were tempermently stable and would make wonderful pets, but they just weren't breeding material they would adopt out to a familys based on a spay and neuter contract. You see it's not as heartless as you thought now was it.
Well I can totally understand that but just to Cull/KILL because U aren't
satisfied is not right.

[cemoreno]

So let me just make sure I have this Right.

U breed dogs for: Showing,working livestock, and hunting, right?
U breed the dogs & if U decide they aren't working out for what U want them for (Showing,working livestock, and hunting) etc. then U Cull them?


Is that how it all works?read mine just above it is what is normally done. Some breeders aren't as picky about giving dogs that are not hunters, show dogs, or pullers no chance to be pets in a good home. IMO no hard feelings stilllwater.

[Stillwater]

So let me just make sure I have this Right.

U breed dogs for: Showing,working livestock, and hunting, right?
U breed the dogs & if U decide they aren't working out for what U want them for (Showing,working livestock, and hunting) etc. then U Cull them?


Is that how it all works?
If they don't meet my standards they are culled.
I don't sell them, and I don't give them away.

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

thats basically it and hard culling is the reason why they are down right bullet proof to this day.we bred the best to the best and anything less than the best didnt make it into the breeding program.and thats how we got everything people love about the breed.great temperment,gameness,superior health and phyisical ability.all that came from hard culling weather it was altering them and giving them to a pet home or putting them down.

[cemoreno]

I agree look at german sheperd dogs they have terrible hip problems not to mention they get cancer as well. If the weak sheperds, and genetic defect sheperds were culled to begin with they would never had this problem, but they are bread only for color or caot type and it weakens the original strain. Which can still be imported from Germany who has kept with standards such as stillwaters. In the end it betters the breed.

[Liza111]

If they don't meet my standards they are culled.
I don't sell them, and I don't give them away.
What are your standards?

[Liza111]

Why does Everybody keep calling it (Culling) ??????????
It's just sugar coating the Real word........Kill/Killing.

[Verderben]

Some may think MY way of thinking is BS?

So your telling me that KILLING a dog just because they don't meet someones standards is just fine & dandy?


Yeah I don't think so, unless the dog is MEAN there's NO reason for it.
There are too many dogs in this world that are homeless and causeing problems because people DON'T cull thier litters. It's because of people with your way of thinking that we have a problem. Not every dog is suitable for a pet.

[Liza111]

There are too many dogs in this world that are homeless and causeing problems because people DON'T cull thier litters. It's because of people with your way of thinking that we have a problem. Not every dog is suitable for a pet.
I'm not saying to keep a mean or vicious dogs but ones that are perfectly normal & can be given away to a family & good home doesn't need to be killed.

[pepper_mommy]

stillwater, it was the same way with our rotties growing up, the runt(s) and any with health and even pups that had show disqualities, ie plate face or wavy coat, or a bad bite were also culled. babies are always easier than 3 month old pups though! i remember that well!
liza, i am not sugar coating, we killed ours, better to do that then to send a bunch to sh***y homes and them end up with champ bloodlines rotting in a cage at a HS somewhere. if they copuldnt show, and had defects that would return with breeding they were killed off. that is what it was like being a true breeder back in the time that my family owned the dogs. now my girl is 9 weeks and spayed....i guess thats also being culled....but thats fine, with her i wanted a pet, and thats what i got. maybe later i will do the bigger stuff like weight pulling and showing abpts but that will be when i can give that attention to the dogs for the quality of show, but that will be after i am done having babies! :)

[Liza111]

There are too many dogs in this world that are homeless and causeing problems because people DON'T cull thier litters. It's because of people with your way of thinking that we have a problem. Not every dog is suitable for a pet.
So if U had a child that was born w/ some type of defect would kill him or her????

[GSDbulldog]

Culling is a good thing. If you are going to produce subpar dogs, then do your part & clean them up. Culling means to remove a dog from a breeding program. Whether this is by euthanesia or altering, it's a GOOD thing. You claim that pet homes are readily available. No they are not. Most people are not equipped to own a low key "pet bull", let alone a dog from working stock. Finding a quality home for a bulldog is nearly impossible. I know- I'm trying to place a little staff pup. That quote is right, death will always take care of your dogs. Would you rather have a dog go quickly, or suffer in a "pet quality" home?

I own 7 dogs at this point, with 5 more coming. I'm not a breeder- I do dog rescue. That is my reason for having so many. Many bulldog breeders keep working yards, and if they have the time/room/money, they can house as many dogs as they want.

[SouthernDixie]

I'm not saying to keep a mean or vicious dogs but ones that are perfectly normal & can be given away to a family & good home doesn't need to be killed.
And many people do just that. Cull doesn't necessarily mean "to kill". Some will spay/neuter the dog and find quality pet homes for it.

My mother got a cocker spaniel (I know, I know....) that had an underbite (fault), therefore was spayed and given to her as a pet.

[pepper_mommy]

liza my first born *was* born with a defect and she recently passed away....try calming down a little here.

[cemoreno]

There are too many dogs in this world that are homeless and causeing problems because people DON'T cull thier litters. It's because of people with your way of thinking that we have a problem. Not every dog is suitable for a pet.
I agree it is these dogs that weren't culled that are causing problems today. heck I just found out yesterday that my beautiful girl kasha might be deaf in one ear. she can't locate me like my mom's sheperd and my pup Anita can. If the breeder had just tested her and culled her as a pup I wouldn't be going through this heart ache. What if a child startels her and she gets scared and nips because she didn't hear him/her comming? Think of that....

[game_test]

So if U had a child that was born w/ some type of defect would kill him or her????

TIP: dont start equating animals to human beings areound this crowd, you wont get too far. this isnt a PETA website.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with treating any animal as if it is livestock. animals are entitled to a few things in captivty, food, water, and shelter. there is no certain amount of love anyone should be forced to, or looked down upon for not giving. my animals are working dogs, like a working farm animal. i treat them as such.

[GSDbulldog]

Let's not compare dogs & humans here. Lest I get sick, because that's what that comparason is- sick.

[Stillwater]

What are your standards?
Depends on the dog, and what I intend to use it for.

[B]

Culling is keeping the genetic stock strong. There is a big difference between killing for no reason and culling animals that don't live up to expectation. Culling is essential to growing your yard stronger. Why would you reproduce with inferior animals? The shelters are already full of unwanted pet animals. Sometimes a humane death is better than a life with a poor owner. A dog earns a spot on a yard, it isn't given for nothing.

Regards,

B

[Liza111]

stillwater, it was the same way with our rotties growing up, the runt(s) and any with health and even pups that had show disqualities, ie plate face or wavy coat, or a bad bite were also culled. babies are always easier than 3 month old pups though! i remember that well!
liza, i am not sugar coating, we killed ours, better to do that then to send a bunch to sh***y homes and them end up with champ bloodlines rotting in a cage at a HS somewhere. if they copuldnt show, and had defects that would return with breeding they were killed off. that is what it was like being a true breeder back in the time that my family owned the dogs. now my girl is 9 weeks and spayed....i guess thats also being culled....but thats fine, with her i wanted a pet, and thats what i got. maybe later i will do the bigger stuff like weight pulling and showing abpts but that will be when i can give that attention to the dogs for the quality of show, but that will be after i am done having babies! :)

So your telling me that because a dog has: ie plate face or wavy coat, or a bad bite, it doesn't have the right to Live?



Everybody has their own opinion & I'm not getting into it, I won't change my mind about it.

Like I said the ONLY reason for me to kill a dog would be if it was Mean, attacked someone, Bit a child, etc.


Best of luck to you w/ having babies:)

[Liza111]

Depends on the dog, and what I intend to use it for.

Ok, doesn't really answer what I asked.

[Liza111]

And many people do just that. Cull doesn't necessarily mean "to kill". Some will spay/neuter the dog and find quality pet homes for it.

My mother got a cocker spaniel (I know, I know....) that had an underbite (fault), therefore was spayed and given to her as a pet.

I'm TOTALLY Fine w/ spay/neuter I'm ONLY Against people that Kill their dogs cuz they don't meet the persons special standards.

[Stillwater]

Best of luck to you w/ having babies:)



What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

[cemoreno]

I would personaly cull a dog if and only if it was HA, had a genetic defect (Which it shouldn't if you were resposible with your breeding program), if the pup would suffer with skin problems for its life, if a pup was weak or had a bad heart, if the pup was unable to eat ie. cleft palate, deafness, or it had an unstable temperment. Things like that if the dog wasn't show quality but had a stable temerment and was an over all great dog I would adopt it out with a spay and neuter contract.

[Stillwater]

I'm TOTALLY Fine w/ spay/neuter I'm ONLY Against people that Kill their dogs cuz they don't meet the persons special standards.

Then you are AGAINST me then.

You may never kill a dog, but people like you are killing the breed.

[Liza111]

TIP: dont start equating animals to human beings areound this crowd, you wont get too far. this isnt a PETA website.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with treating any animal as if it is livestock. animals are entitled to a few things in captivty, food, water, and shelter. there is no certain amount of love anyone should be forced to, or looked down upon for not giving. my animals are working dogs, like a working farm animal. i treat them as such.

Don't compare me to PETA! I can think what I want & if I don't like something I will say it. Not starting anything, I just asked what Culling was & when I found out didn't like it.


MY opinion.:D

[Liza111]

Then you are AGAINST me then.

You may never kill a dog, but people like you are killing the breed.

I'm not against ANYBODY, just stating my opinion.

I didn't start this topic, just asked what (culling) is after someone brought it up.

[Stillwater]

LIZA, do you even know anything about the dogs pic you are using and who bred it?

[Verderben]

So if U had a child that was born w/ some type of defect would kill him or her???? For one kids and dogs are NOT the same. BUT since you want to go down that road we will. A friend and I just had this discussin yesterday. If I was pregnant and found out early on that the baby would be severaly disabled and say for example be confined to a chair with a feeding tube and wearing diapers the rest of its life YES I would have an abortion. That is NO quality of life. If the child had say a slow learning disability or deformed hand or something that would NOT affect the quality of life then NO I would not terminate the pregnancy. But then again as I said DOGS AND KIDS ARE NOT THE SAME. That is apples to oranges.....

[Liza111]

liza my first born *was* born with a defect and she recently passed away....try calming down a little here.
I'm SORRY to hear that, U didn't Kill her though.


LISTEN I'm not trying to start anything w/ ANYBODY someone ELSE brought up (culling) so I asked what is was.

[pepper_mommy]

liza, i dont think anyone here is trying to change your opinion....you are fighting a losing battle trying to get us to change ours. i would agree to disagree and back away, thats my opinion....again, take it or leave it. and yes, a rottie with defects did not have the right lo live, and "living" should really be looked into. go visit your local humane society and ask a few rescue/foster homes here about what "living" means. i bet your idea and the truth are not the same.

[pepper_mommy]

i also agree with highvoltage, *if* i was preg again and the baby wasnt developmentally right, i too would abort. like i said there is a big broad world when the word "living" is used!
and no, i didnt kill her, her dad did, but had i known then what i know now she would not have come into this world.

[Liza111]

LIZA, do you even know anything about the dogs pic you are using and who bred it?

No & what does that have to do w/ anything????

[pepper_mommy]

lol, what??? isnt that your dog? sorry, but now I am confused!

[Stillwater]

No & what does that have to do w/ anything????
If, I'm not mistaken its W.C.C.'s Devil Deacon, which was bred by K. Marlow and sired by Baily's Bingo.

Two men who cull VERY Hard. It just seemed funny to me that you would be SO against culling, yet have a picture of a dog as your Icon, that is a direct result of hard culling

[Verderben]

You may never kill a dog, but people like you are killing the breed.
Yeah I must say I agree with ya on that....

[Liza111]

liza, i dont think anyone here is trying to change your opinion....you are fighting a losing battle trying to get us to change ours. i would agree to disagree and back away, thats my opinion....again, take it or leave it. and yes, a rottie with defects did not have the right lo live, and "living" should really be looked into. go visit your local humane society and ask a few rescue/foster homes here about what "living" means. i bet your idea and the truth are not the same.
No EVERYONE is just like vultures!
I'm not fighting anything, just defending my OWN opinion.
I'm not trying to change anybody's opinion, just stating mine.


Like I said beore I DIDN'T start This topic, just asked what it was, found out & didn't agree w/ it.

[pepper_mommy]

why are you yelling??

[Liza111]

If, I'm not mistaken its W.C.C.'s Devil Deacon, which was bred by K. Marlow and sired by Baily's Bingo.

Two men who cull VERY Hard. It just seemed funny to me that you would be SO against culling, yet have a picture of a dog as your Icon, that is a direct result of hard culling
I just said I didn't agree with it & would never do it, I CAN'T do anything about someone else doing it.


EVERYONE is making this HUGE deal about it, just like I've seen w/ MANY other people w/ certain topics, everyone gangs up on one person.


I DIDN'T F'ing bring up CULLING, never even knew about it & when I found out & didn't like it EVERYBODY is saying I'm this & that.

[Liza111]

why are you yelling??
Because I don't like being ganged up on & that is what's happening just like I've seen happen to many other people since I've joined.

[pepper_mommy]

just to let you know, i got my ass handed to me when i went AR (animal right) crazy in a thread by bamaboy, and after open mindedly seeing what i was ignorant in and about, i made my peace and walked away wounded but with knowledge. i think that is what is happening to you right now. just try to learn something....not neccessarily change your views, just learn. then walk away with your new knoledge and either store it, use it, or forget it! :) good luck on that

[Liza111]

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?



What do YOU mean what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

(Pepper_mommy) wrote:

maybe later i will do the bigger stuff like weight pulling and showing abpts but that will be when i can give that attention to the dogs for the quality of show, but that will be after i am done having babies! :)


I'm guessing she is going to have a baby/children, I said Best of Luck, have fun, Enjoy it, etc.


U don't understand English?

Don't come at me swearing & trying to be an ass to me!

[Liza111]

just to let you know, i got my ass handed to me when i went AR (animal right) crazy in a thread by bamaboy, and after open mindedly seeing what i was ignorant in and about, i made my peace and walked away wounded but with knowledge. i think that is what is happening to you right now. just try to learn something....not neccessarily change your views, just learn. then walk away with your new knoledge and either store it, use it, or forget it! :) good luck on that

Thanks............:)

[pepper_mommy]

wow, not a good way to make aquaintences here liza. maybe this thread should be closed.

[Liza111]

wow, not a good way to make aquaintences here liza. maybe this thread should be closed.

Excuse me but (Stillwater) is Swearing at me after I told YOU good luck.

How am I wrong?

[pepper_mommy]

like i said maybe its time to kick this thread, its a bad vibe and probably not salvagable. everyone has different opinions. different views, and different needs for their dogs. just come down from high horses and quit the mud slinging and maybe we can all work together on this breed and its future. but then again, that would be in a perfect world....sigh...

[Liza111]

like i said maybe its time to kick this thread, its a bad vibe and probably not salvagable. everyone has different opinions. different views, and different needs for their dogs. just come down from high horses and quit the mud slinging and maybe we can all work together on this breed and its future. but then again, that would be in a perfect world....sigh...

pepper_mommy,
Your right & the only one that has been nice to me, couple others not many!



THREAD CLOSED!:)

[cheese]

Liza- I had the same views as you but if you look at our breed and all the stuff going on with legislations do you think it is ok to have all these dogs runnin around or in shelters. Besides that alot of the things that you may like about our breed probably is a result of hard culling and careful breeding

[NCPatchwork]

I agree with everyone...My room mates and I have a few dogs...6 to be exact, but I only two...once I get enough room, I'll probably have a yard full of pups...I love them and they are addicting and its not like we are horders only doing it for fun, its too expensive to just do for "fun" Each and every one of them are well cared for and taken care of and each see a vet and get their shots and wormer. Its not because we want them, its because we love them, it may look funny to some, but its just the love.

[Liza111]

Liza- I had the same views as you but if you look at our breed and all the stuff going on with legislations do you think it is ok to have all these dogs runnin around or in shelters. Besides that alot of the things that you may like about our breed probably is a result of hard culling and careful breeding
Yes I agree but it's just hard to look at my 2 pits & think of someone killing simular dogs.

I just love dogs & to me killing a dog or one passing away is the same thing.

I'm NOT saying people don't have the right, I guess I just don't want to know about it:)


People have ganged up on me on the Culling thing, do what U want, I just don't want to know about it.

NOTHING to fight about.

[NCPatchwork]

I can understand what your saying:)
As long as the dogs are not being put to death . (Generally speaking)
Sometimes, its best for the dog. Why would you keep a dog, feed and water and care for something that bites you or hurts others. Its only for the betterment. It was rough for me at first, but I started understanding why breeders euthanize dogs. You don't need to have a HA Pit out there hurting people. All that does it make it harder for people who LOVE the breed and have to get rid of them because of someone being very upset for not putting down a pup when its truely right not only for other dogs but other humans as well.

[lonesharkpits]

Sometimes, its best for the dog. Why would you keep a dog, feed and water and care for something that bites you or hurts others. Its only for the betterment. It was rough for me at first, but I started understanding why breeders euthanize dogs. You don't need to have a HA Pit out there hurting people. All that does it make it harder for people who LOVE the breed and have to get rid of them because of someone being very upset for not putting down a pup when its truely right not only for other dogs but other humans as well.I agree. Think about it. What if you sold or gave a dog away that you didn't need or want, then it ends up in the hands of a back yard fighter and is horrifically abused and fought over and over again. It would of been better for the dog if you had of euthanized it. This happens more than you think. There are too many people that thinks it is cool to own a pit bull and fight it on street corners and use electric shock on the dog:(

[Liza111]

Sometimes, its best for the dog. Why would you keep a dog, feed and water and care for something that bites you or hurts others. Its only for the betterment. It was rough for me at first, but I started understanding why breeders euthanize dogs. You don't need to have a HA Pit out there hurting people. All that does it make it harder for people who LOVE the breed and have to get rid of them because of someone being very upset for not putting down a pup when its truely right not only for other dogs but other humans as well.

I'm not against it if that's the case.

[lonesharkpits]

It is hard at first to understand, but I think you understand better now. Breeding may not be for you, but understand that we do know you are entitled to your opinion.

[NCPatchwork]

It is hard at first to understand, but I think you understand better now. Breeding may not be for you, but understand that we do know you are entitled to your opinion.
Agreed. Breeding isn't for all..Ups and downs are there and sometimes you have to have a tough skin.

[asaj]

This is a reply to the originall question:
Yes, I have 6 dogs, 4 is mine and 2 is foster( rescue).
I do work, but I have no kids and my dogs is my hobby, if I go to the beach with my friends, my dogs come along ,if I go hiking in the forest, my dogs come along, if I...????? well... thats acctualy what there is to do down here.

[14rock]

That's the MOST insane thing I have ever heard!

There's Plenty of people out there that can give a dog a Good home & Life. If that was the truth, the shelters would all be empty. To cull means to eliminate from your breeding program-period. Every breeder is diffrent, whether that means they spay/neuter the dog and give it to a pet home, or humanely put it to sleep, thats their perogative. I think WWII's quote was spot on, and we wouldnt be in the position we are today if people culled.

By culling animals, you are bettering the entire breed instead of focusing on your own selfish wants. If you have are a hog-hunter and have a dog that wouldnt lay a tooth in the hog, and you just decide to make some food money back by selling it for 100 bucks or whatever-what happens to that dog then? That animal could possibly go to a home not suited to care for a working dog, the animal can be neglected, and even worse-bred. When these animals that dont work out are released to the general public, some idiot will always want to breed them. When that happens (breeding poor specimins of the breed) the quality of the breed as a whole continually decreases. If everyone culled and only bred the best of the best, not only would we have fewer dogs, and fewer problems, but the overall quality of our breed will be better in 15 years than it is today. Thats something that used to take place, now days, I would say the breed was much better off 15 years ago than today! I attribute this to people placing low-quality dogs in the hands of people not fit to care for these animals.

Back to the topic though-why so many dogs? If you are intrested in bettering the breed,and your line, you need to keep as many examples of that line close by to see how well your breedings clicked, and what will make better dogs in the future. If you have a litter of 8, keep 5 on your yard, 2 on a buddies, and 1 at another friends, you know exactly where those dogs are at, can trust they are in good hands, and in 18 months, will know if your breeding was worth a squirt. If you dont hang onto your specimins, you dont have a clue as to what breedings are making good dogs, and which arent. That is one of the distinguishing marks of a byb, a person who doesnt care about the breed as a whole, and once the dogs are gone, forgets about them for the most part. A responsible breeder will keep every single one of those puppies if at all possible. If the breeding doesnt work and he needs to cull 4 out of 8, how is that BS? To me that is better than those 4 sub-standard dogs being placed in homes you cant trust. That is responsibility to the fullest extent,and that is something everyone involved in working breeds needs to exhibit to be an upstanding dog-owner.

[Red_Chrome]

I have 2 dogs and am getting a working malinois puppy next June. So that means 3. I also am a full-time college student, my dogs are my hobby instead of drinking and partying. They eat all my money. LOL

[maryellen1]

liza, i understand why you are upset, but you must read and learn about this breed if you will own one.. i am involved in rescue, and to be honest,there are NOT enough dog savvy people for most breeds, let alone a pit bull.. and unfortunately, the unsound pitbulls are more prevelent in the shelters then the sound ones, yes, there are sound ones there, but you have to weed thruthe unsound ones to get to the sound ones.. i will euthanize any unsound pitbulls that show human aggression, and any that have permanent health problems that will hinder them in their life that is not treatable. why? because no one wants an unhealthy dog, let alone a pit bull.. i have a gsd here now that is so genetically screwed up health wise she should have been euthed a few years ago, but since i can afford to keep her under a vets care i do.. most people would never want her, as her health issues are too many... most people are not pit bull savy, even some petbull owners. so to keep the breed true to form, the good breeders will mostly euth the dogs that dont meet their standards, they know what they are breeding, and they know all to well the type of people out there that cant handle their dogs or any other dogs.. the breeders who breed true to stock want only the best bred, like in the old days when the breed first started.. cleft palates, mange, deafness, lameness, hip displasia , etc, are all defective genes.. which you do not want passed to the next generation.

if people did their research before they got a dog there wouldnt be shelters now or rescues.. i have turned down alot of people for this breed because they didnt educate themselves.. and i get alot of calls from people who want to give up this breed because they didnt do their homework., so for the true breeders to cull the litters or the adolescents if they see a genetic defect or something they dont want its necessary..

[maryellen1]

and i have 3 dogs, a gsd, a rottx, and a pitx.. plus i foster one dog at a time., that is all i can handle. mine are all house dogs..

[Riptora]

Every situation is unique. I can imagine that an extremely high-driven working pit dog might not make the best house pet. I bet that Stillwater's dogs are like this and would probably end up in a shelter or in a terrible situation if given away. Not to mention that there is a reputation attached to these dogs. If you are breeding nice dogs and some moron gets one because you thought you were doing the pup a favor instead of euthing it and the jerk fights it in the streets and it gets in the news or word gets out that this poor, abused, burned alive, God knows what dog came from you... what kind of crowd will you attract then? Or what kind of name will you have after that?

Beleive us when we say that there are a million and one VERY nice family-pet dogs available for adoption to people who have no interest in ribbons or titles. These dogs are about to be culled and have been every day for years.

If you want a working dog of any breed you go where working dogs are made. Of course you have to love your dogs with a deep intensity to become so consumed with everything involved in breeding/working. Taking into considersation, $, time, genetics, rules of showing, training, conditioning, travel, research, etc.

The real crime here is not loving your dogs. Whatever you need to do to be responsible and take care of YOUR pack. Those people who own far more than one dog, own a pack. Which is it's own science.

[Liza111]

It is hard at first to understand, but I think you understand better now. Breeding may not be for you, but understand that we do know you are entitled to your opinion.

It's Very hard!

Well thanks for not attacking me & understanding :).

[Liza111]

This is a reply to the originall question:
Yes, I have 6 dogs, 4 is mine and 2 is foster( rescue).
I do work, but I have no kids and my dogs is my hobby, if I go to the beach with my friends, my dogs come along ,if I go hiking in the forest, my dogs come along, if I...????? well... thats acctualy what there is to do down here.

I got ya there, it'a a LIFE time commitment, that's for sure!:D

[Attila]

Why not? Who is to judge another on what they do with their time and money? Limitations are bad news. Then you can't help any one or any dog in need be you have the dog limit placed on some one who thinks they can rule what we do. I have 7 dogs I am retired and I will have more if I want too. It sounds like dictatorship. you can only have so many dogs, cats, birds, kids, cars etc. some one is always trying to control someone elses life. What right do those that think like that have to take away ours?

[Mercepitdog]

Why so many? Because responsible owners can thats why. Take tab dogs for example. This lady had LOTS of dogs, and every single one is so healthy and in good shape, happy....the question is why not? You see, as long as the owner can take good care of the animals, work them all, they can have up to 50 dogs or more, hell its their damn business.

Power to them though!

[asaj]

It is a life time commitment! But one I dont have a problem commiting to! lol!

[14rock]

I hear that red_chrome. For those that are serious about their dogs, this is more than just a pet who sleeps on the couch, our dogs, and their breed is our obsession. I only have two presently, if you knew my location situation, you would understand why. When you live next door to the cheif of police, yard-accidents that come with a yard full of dogs are kind of frowned upon to say the least. LOL

When I am able to find another place, also out in the country, with a minimum of 4-5 acres, I will be able to taken in the dogs I want to. Its something folks with the city mentality probably wont ever understand as to how anyone can care for 15 dogs a day. Lifes a little more laid back out here, we wake up, feed the dogs, come home from work, and work the dogs. We dont spend 2 hours in traffic each way to work, and we have acres and acres to keep as many dogs as we want. More time + more space= more doggies :D

[420puffer]

Why so many? Because responsible owners can thats why. Take tab dogs for example. This lady had LOTS of dogs, and every single one is so healthy and in good shape, happy....the question is why not? You see, as long as the owner can take good care of the animals, work them all, they can have up to 50 dogs or more, hell its their damn business.

Power to them though!i agree. as long as they can care for their pets, then they should be allowed to keep as many as possible. What is the limit in California? 4 dogs? I am one of the owners who only has 1 at the moment, but once I buy my own house with a huge yard I will get more another.

[Liza111]

liza, i understand why you are upset, but you must read and learn about this breed if you will own one.. i am involved in rescue, and to be honest,there are NOT enough dog savvy people for most breeds, let alone a pit bull.. and unfortunately, the unsound pitbulls are more prevelent in the shelters then the sound ones, yes, there are sound ones there, but you have to weed thruthe unsound ones to get to the sound ones.. i will euthanize any unsound pitbulls that show human aggression, and any that have permanent health problems that will hinder them in their life that is not treatable. why? because no one wants an unhealthy dog, let alone a pit bull.. i have a gsd here now that is so genetically screwed up health wise she should have been euthed a few years ago, but since i can afford to keep her under a vets care i do.. most people would never want her, as her health issues are too many... most people are not pit bull savy, even some petbull owners. so to keep the breed true to form, the good breeders will mostly euth the dogs that dont meet their standards, they know what they are breeding, and they know all to well the type of people out there that cant handle their dogs or any other dogs.. the breeders who breed true to stock want only the best bred, like in the old days when the breed first started.. cleft palates, mange, deafness, lameness, hip displasia , etc, are all defective genes.. which you do not want passed to the next generation.

if people did their research before they got a dog there wouldnt be shelters now or rescues.. i have turned down alot of people for this breed because they didnt educate themselves.. and i get alot of calls from people who want to give up this breed because they didnt do their homework., so for the true breeders to cull the litters or the adolescents if they see a genetic defect or something they dont want its necessary..
I see where your coming from, there's tons of people out there that have NO idea what their doing & just get Pit Bulls cuz they think there tuff & want to look cool. I Love my two & am Very happy that I have them, I'm very sure that if I wouldn't have bought Zoey someone with BAD intentions would have gotten their hands on her.

[Suki]

I see where your coming from, there's tons of people out there that have NO idea what their doing & just get Pit Bulls cuz they think there tuff & want to look cool. I Love my two & am Very happy that I have them, I'm very sure that if I wouldn't have bought Zoey someone with BAD intentions would have gotten their hands on her.

Good Liza. Sounds like you've learned from this post.:)
Think of it this way: If breeders DIDN'T cull, imagine how much MORE the shelters would be crowded?????
And personally, if I had the choice, I'd move on an island with only my dogs, (and bike, of course), and live out the rest of my days in euphoria.
Know why I'd have so many?
Just like the folks here. Because I love this breed and everything they encompass. It's a passion. Plain and simple!:)

[Riptora]

No pain, no gain. If you want to take on breeding working dogs and all the lovely crap that follows it, than do it right or don't do it at all.

[B]

I think Stillwater believed that your comment was directed at him. Misunderstanding in that case.

Regards,

B

[Defend2DaEnd]

LIza- All you have to remember is that tons of dogs die in shelters everyday. If every dog breeder period culled dogs that had ANY faults then there wouldn't be that many in shelters. IF I ever become a breeder (in a million years because I will only breed if there is a demand or I own a farm) I will cull. Whether it'd be spay/neuter and place with friends or family and no one else or euthanise. I find it harsh that this is done but like I said before millions of dogs die in shelters every year. There is very little that can be done about it. Culling gave us the breed we love today.

[Liza111]

I think Stillwater believed that your comment was directed at him. Misunderstanding in that case.

Regards,

B
Yes I believe your right but at that moment I was a bit fired up, lol


All Better now:D

[pennsooner]

I came to this thread late. I'm not a breeder, but the fact is for performance bred Pitbulls, finding good homes is VERY VERY VERY tough. Putting those sorts of dogs in the hands of a casual dog owner is a disaster waiting to happen.


I think a lot of people DO nuter/spay and try to place if they CAN do so safely, but these sorts of dogs are tough to place. It takes a lot of thought and hardwork to keep them happy and safe.

[miakoda]

Sorry for being so forward but if someone Kills a dog cuz there not working out to the persons standards that's just BULLSHIT!
What's better? To go & dump them at a shelter where they'll live several weeks in a cage sleeping on cold concrete being hosed down once a day along with the kennel in an effort to get rid of all the urine & feces? And to have food & water just shoved at it once a day & for the dog to only see people through the wire of the kennel? That's better than humanely euthanizing the animal?

You must keep in mind that just b/c an animal is alive, doesn't mean it's living. And a life without living is worth than death.

As far as culling is concerned, don't equate it to just "pit bull" people. Serious hunters using all breeds of dogs partake in this "tactic" in an effort to produce only the top quality dogs while helping to prevent overpopulation & the possible abuse of an animal (by dumping it on someone else). It's called being responsible.

[catcher T]

What's better? To go & dump them at a shelter where they'll live several weeks in a cage sleeping on cold concrete being hosed down once a day along with the kennel in an effort to get rid of all the urine & feces? And to have food & water just shoved at it once a day & for the dog to only see people through the wire of the kennel? That's better than humanely euthanizing the animal?

You must keep in mind that just b/c an animal is alive, doesn't mean it's living. And a life without living is worth than death.

As far as culling is concerned, don't equate it to just "pit bull" people. Serious hunters using all breeds of dogs partake in this "tactic" in an effort to produce only the top quality dogs while helping to prevent overpopulation & the possible abuse of an animal (by dumping it on someone else). It's called being responsible.
yup!! right on Mia,,as usual,,take a trip through some of these big city shelters,,its hideous the way these dogs sit in cages waiting to die or get adopted if they are so lucky to have a good home,,especially the pit bulls,,no chance for them,,thats why if someone is breeding they should know what they are doing and breed for the best,,period,,no ifs ands buts about it

[420puffer]

I came to this thread late. I'm not a breeder, but the fact is for performance bred Pitbulls, finding good homes is VERY VERY VERY tough. Putting those sorts of dogs in the hands of a casual dog owner is a disaster waiting to happen.


I think a lot of people DO nuter/spay and try to place if they CAN do so safely, but these sorts of dogs are tough to place. It takes a lot of thought and hardwork to keep them happy and safe.Finding good homes for any pitbull is already very tough.. There are too many ppl that just shouldnt have a pit or anything close to it

[Sid Finster]

I'm very sure that if I wouldn't have bought Zoey someone with BAD intentions would have gotten their hands on her. No offense intended, but all too often, the problem owners, like problem parents, have nothing but the best of intentions for their dog or child. Their problem lies in an overly-disneyfied view of dog-human relations. To exend the Disney metaphor, their ideal is "Lady and the Tramp" when "Call of the Wild" better corresponds to a dog's reality. ("Wild Kingdom" is even better.)

No cruelty is involved in any way, these well-meaning people bend over backwards to avoid doing anything mean. These are the people who chant "It's all how you raise them!" and believe that if they are nice enough to their dogs, the dogs will somehow forget that they are both predators and pack animals.

These people's dogs and kids end up responsible for a lot of headlines.

[PiTBuLL200416]

I agree and disagree with you on that Sin Finster but well said