Is My Dog A Pig?

[Montana250]

2 months old ( got here only 2 weeks ago) and having major issues in the potty department. Getting up twice a night to take her out and still we are waking up to a filthy cage. She's crapping then stomping in it and jumping up paws first to get more of it everywhere. I can understand if we just said "the hell with it" and let her deficate but we are TAKING HER OUT as I have said and even twice. Plus we are cutting off food at 7-8 pm! I asked a friend to ask his friend who has several pits/dogs and he just discounts these actions as "that's the way some puppies are". Unfortunately, this isn't sitting well with the wife who wants her gone. Tell me this will end someday or what I'm doing wrong....

[pepper_mommy]

i would say cut her food off at 4:30 pm for the night, block off part of her crate so that it is small enough for her only. (only AFTER you scrub the hell out of it and fabreeze it, b/c if she can smell it, she will go again) then keep her in it for 1-2 hours tops for a few days and walk her til she goes, or if nothing try again in another hour, when she does go outside praise loudly and excitedly and give a treat and a good rub! after a few days you shoudl be able to go longer hours, welcome to parenthood!!! :) just remember to never punish for deficating in her crate, its your fault if she does...bottom line, sorry...i am crate/potty training right now myself, mine is 9 weeks. it gets easier, but just clean the crate spotless after any accidents and no water or food after 4:30/5:00pm until she gets older and can hold it longer!
good luck!!!! :)

[pepper_mommy]

oh. and if it helps, i *AM* the wife getting frustrated :)

[laurajean]

Oh don't give up! Did you have pup checked by vet? If she has some intestinal infection, she may not be able to help herself...
Please some knowledgeable people...Help!.
Another thought that occurs to me is that the change in her diet may be causing diarrhea. When they are young sometimes their tummies are sensitive. Are you feeding the same food as the breeder? That may be causing the problem...
Welcome to dog ownership...sometimes you just got to deal with S**T.

[pepper_mommy]

oh yeah, i forgot until i read laura's post, if she has recently been wormed she may be going more often....thanks to last weeks worming after her spay, we now have to get the carpets cleaned!!! bleh!!!

[Montana250]

She was wormed when I first got her. That friend of a friend says to jam her nose in it and spank her when she does it in her cage. I have heard as pepper posted above to NEVER do that but he claims he has had success doing that. Now, I don't know him well enough to see the outcome of said discipline ( as maybe the dog is more aggressive or more afraid because of it) but I'm sure others on here have spanked for this reason as well. And if we're taking her out twice prior, I'm wondering how it's our fault? Maybe she does have an intestinal problem. However, when I have her with me in the day I don't have these problems. I know her warning signs and just take her out when I see them.

[pepper_mommy]

well if you rub her nose in it and spank her...thats your perogative, i was trying to help thats all, just understnad you are dealing with a baby animal, who has probably only been away from her litter for a short time, and separated from the days where mama dog would licker her but clean when she went potty...but now it is up to you to make sure that accidents happen as few and far between as possible. basically by saying its your fault, is only saying that whatever you are doing now is clearly not working, and if you want it to work, its up to you...not her. i personally would never rub a puppy's face in her feces for an accident....but like i said, i am not bashing, its just not my thing. good luck though.

[laurajean]

She was wormed when I first got her. That friend of a friend says to jam her nose in it and spank her when she does it in her cage. I have heard as pepper posted above to NEVER do that but he claims he has had success doing that. Now, I don't know him well enough to see the outcome of said discipline ( as maybe the dog is more aggressive or more afraid because of it) but I'm sure others on here have spanked for this reason as well. And if we're taking her out twice prior, I'm wondering how it's our fault? Maybe she does have an intestinal problem. However, when I have her with me in the day I don't have these problems. I know her warning signs and just take her out when I see them.Oh please don't spank her and jam her nose in it! She might be sick.
Is there some room with an easy to clean floor you can confine her in? Or a place outside? It's not normal for a dog to mess in her space...Please investigate ALL other options before you spank her...meanwhile PM me your address and I'll send you some clothespins and rubber gloves...S**t is just recycled food after all...

[Montana250]

I would only spank her and put her nose in it if the majority comes on here and says YES, that works! Otherwise, I would rather NEVER spank my dog and jam her nose in it. Supposedly, this guy with the advice is a breeder as well but who knows? And I wouldn't even be bringing this up of it was once a week. But it's practically EVERY night. And it's hard for me to believe it's sickness if this isn't the case in the daytime!

[B]

Wow, if you wife is ready to throw the towel in already you should have seriously reconsidered getting a puppy. The night time is obviously too long for her to hold it. You need to set an alarm and take her out in the middle of the night. It really sounds like this dog might end up in a shelter if your wife is already ready to give up. This is normal puppy stuff. You don't need to rub her face in anything or punish her. If a dog messes in the house it is YOUR fault. A dog that old can't hold it but a few hours. Rubbing their face in it or spanking them doesn't do anything but undermine her trust in you. You need to praise her when she goes outside and give her amply opportunity to go the bathroom. Do you just leave food out? You should feed once in the morning and once in the EARLY evening. Don't leave food out constantly. These issues are your problems, not the puppies. She sounds just like every other puppy I've ever raised but the difference is the owner. I know they can't hold it forever so I wake up at 4 AM to take them outside. I simply come back in and put them back in the kennel and go back to sleep until I have to go to work. Some pups are better than others but this isn't her fault.

Regards,

B

[BamaBoy]

Cut her food off earlier as previously suggested. Make sure she does her business before you crate her for the night. Feed a quality feed!

[Attila]

Excellent post B.. Never rub a pups nose in mess and spank it. Ya wouldn't do that to your own baby would ya? I sure hope not. They know they messed. You have to watch a puppy's every move and lear when it is looking for a spot and know it's cycle. I cut off feed at 1830 hours all dogs in crates for the night and take them out in the morning. I don't have messes. Every now and then a pup will but that is life with pups take it out side and then mop up the mess good and use bleach or something to cut the odors. It sounds as logical to spank a pup for messing as when some dude told me if your dog kills chickens tie one to its neck till it rots off and the dog will never kill one again. There is no way in Sam's Hell I am going to do that. First of all My dogs sleep inside at night second I doubt it would work third it's just plain sick and mean.

[goodbyexgirl]

Wow, if you wife is ready to throw the towel in already you should have seriously reconsidered getting a puppy. The night time is obviously too long for her to hold it. You need to set an alarm and take her out in the middle of the night. It really sounds like this dog might end up in a shelter if your wife is already ready to give up. This is normal puppy stuff. You don't need to rub her face in anything or punish her. If a dog messes in the house it is YOUR fault. A dog that old can't hold it but a few hours. Rubbing their face in it or spanking them doesn't do anything but undermine her trust in you. You need to praise her when she goes outside and give her amply opportunity to go the bathroom. Do you just leave food out? You should feed once in the morning and once in the EARLY evening. Don't leave food out constantly. These issues are your problems, not the puppies. She sounds just like every other puppy I've ever raised but the difference is the owner. I know they can't hold it forever so I wake up at 4 AM to take them outside. I simply come back in and put them back in the kennel and go back to sleep until I have to go to work. Some pups are better than others but this isn't her fault.

Regards,

Bdidn't you read that they already take the puppy out once and even twice in the middle of the night?

[B]

Dogs don't understand why you are rubbing their face in it or spanking them, yelling at them etc. They just see that means that they can't go potty in front of you or they get punished. Dogs have simple minds and are in no way comparable to a child. Hope this helps explain why both of these methods are ineffective! Positive encouragement (verbal and treats) when the puppy goes outside or whines and you take it outside are the best way to train a pup.

Regards,

B

[cheese]

I had the same problem with my one pup. she knew not to go inside but she didn't have the bladder control untill about 6 or 7 months and even then there were accidents. But like B said it was always my fault because she would warn me i just didnt have much time. Dont give up on her yet she will get over it.

[14rock]

Puppies cant hold it, especially that young! By the time they realize they have to go, its on the floor. Rubbing their nose in it and smacking them only makes them feel worse about something they cannot help. They want to please, and if they could they would pottytrain themselves, but you need to be there to open that door for them on a set routine. I had a dog years back who we did this to (rubbed his nose in his urine, he never defecated in the house) and it really didnt do anything except get him to hide it in diffrent corners of the house to avoid the punishment. I havent used that technique since, and dont recommend it for any dog.

8 weeks old, the dog should just now be leaving the litter, not 2 weeks ago, be patient! Do you know for a fact the dog has been wormed, or did you just take the breeders word? Regardless, its never a bad idea to take the pup to the vet to get them checked out upon bringing them home. I gurantee if you are letting the dog out every 2 hours and praising the hell out of her, in a few weeks your little one will amaze you. Bulldogs are generally extremely intelligent, and house-break fairly easy. These past two weeks the dog should of still been around mommy and littermates and pooped at will, the frustration you are experiencing now is because someone pawned the dog off on you too early, when it wasnt ready to go yet! Best of luck, you made an obligation to care for this dog until it dies when you brought it home, dont cur out and bring it to the shelter now.

[miakoda]

First, this dog doesnt' need to just be wormed, as dewormers do nothing to kill/guard against other intestinal parasites such as giardia, coccidia, thrichimonis, bacteria, etc. The dog needs to have a fecal check done at the vet's office.

Second, what kind of food are you feeding?

Third, do you leave it down all day? Or do you have 3 distinct feeding times?

EDIT: Just want to stress that if this dog hasn't seen a vet for a proper exam & fecal exam, then there is a very good chance he's harboring some other sort of intestinal parasite. Don't delay, it could cost the pup is life!

[Suki]

2 months old ( got here only 2 weeks ago) and having major issues in the potty department. Getting up twice a night to take her out and still we are waking up to a filthy cage. She's crapping then stomping in it and jumping up paws first to get more of it everywhere. I can understand if we just said "the hell with it" and let her deficate but we are TAKING HER OUT as I have said and even twice. Plus we are cutting off food at 7-8 pm! I asked a friend to ask his friend who has several pits/dogs and he just discounts these actions as "that's the way some puppies are". Unfortunately, this isn't sitting well with the wife who wants her gone. Tell me this will end someday or what I'm doing wrong....
Good points already mentioned. What comes to mind to me, is age and change. The pup is young. Her body/system though growing, is still immature and weak. With pups, they don't understand "hold it". It's an urge, then a reaction. Period. She needs to learn where and when it's acceptable to void, and that direction needs to come from you, by a means of patient teaching. Not "nose rubbing"=which only encourages her to fear you, and adds more frustration to an already bothersome situation.
Her life has basically been turned upside down and disrupted. Her food, (good point), may have been changed, upsetting her system, causing more BM's. Her feeding schedule may have changed. At what time did the breeders give their last feed? 7-8, imo, is late for a pup. Also, don't free feed, as your pup may be "picking" until all hours of the evening, wreaking havoc.
She is still adapting to you, and adapting to being away from the mother. Stressful situations for a pup.
Patience, praise and consistency. Develope a schedule and adhere to it. When she does her business outside, praise her heavily. If she soils inside, you were too late, and should fault yourself. You are her master, her teacher, and she will learn as well as she is taught.
Good luck :)

[catcher T]

isn't this an 8 wk old puppy? they can-not go many hours without food,,their spincter muscles aren't developed,,their bladders are small,,come on,,its a baby!

[prettyfulpitbull]

Does she get into your trash at all?It could cause diareahea or if she is fed people food.I think as mentioned above you should try putting her in a smaller crate.My pup did that for the first day than after stepping in it she stopped.Keep her clean and good hygiene and as she grows she will be as clean as a dog can be.My older female doesn't like to step in anything nasty she picks her paw up if she does like omg thats grose

[Montana250]

The breeders were known to raise dogs in what many would consider a bad environment. This is one of the reasons I have this dog at all. She was brought around the office and we fell in love with her. After seeing pictures of the other dogs the breeder had ( tied up in muddy areas with haphazard dog houses ) we felt overpaying for the dog ( $250 ) was necessary.

Beneful for Puppy's is what we feed her. And once again, I do not have problems during the day AND we get up at night with her!!!

[Evil_Elvis]

beneful is not a very good feed try switching to something else i used purina pro plan for puppies alot of older dog men swear by pro plan

[pepper_mommy]

i use iams for puppies, pepper sleeps all night in the bed with us....we are ok with it so it doesnt matter, she will actually get up and go on her weewee pad if she needs to at night, otherwise, brian is up with her at 4:30 to walk, and then its back in the bed, but when i get up with the baby i better take her out or she messes everywhere, thats her new clock.

[NCPatchwork]

It takes months for potty training...make sure you aren't free feeding...set times that you are going to be home for a while, EX. First thing when you wake up, and when you get home from work. Make sure her kennel isn't too large. She should only be able to sit down, turn around, and lay down. It took me almost 5 months with my dog, and he still has his accidents in the house. Truely, most dog trainers will say it takes almost a year for a perfect potty trained dog. Make sure you take her out as soon as you wake up and as soon as you get home, whether she used the potty in the kennel or not. It shows them that you are going to take them to the bathroom at those times everyday and she will soon realize that she can wait till you take her out. My dog goes to the door now every time its time to potty, we are still working on some type of communication, but at 5 months, I'm impressed.

[asaj]

I find a lot of sick pups on the streets, or "somebody" dropps them of at my house.
Most of them are in a f***** up state, worms, flees, ticks ,malnuitrition ect.
Many of of them have had litle or no contact with humans, so just to call them or pick them up to take them out and potty the first days is a challenge. I feed them raw ground beef, ground turkey, ground chicken and fish. Raw food is easy to digest and what comes out is not very much, that means that they dont have to go that often.
Most kibbles contains a lot of corn, rice ect and dogs have a bit of a problem with digesting it. This works for me.
Any time your wife is giving you S*** for your pup, think that you are not alone, my boyfriend is giving me endless! Dont give up!

[B]

Purina and Iams are CRAP foods! Do no listen to this advice! Both of those are sub-par supermarket feeds. Do a search on dog food and you will see "good" ones.

Regards,

B

[laurajean]

Yes, Suki did a good post on quality feeds...I read it and my dog now gets a lot better feed and it shows in her coat, in the size of her BMs and in her energy level. You can search for the post..."rating dog foods" (I believe that was the title) or perhaps some kind-hearted person will post the link here in this thread. Beneful is crap.
Also if the dogs were in a crummy environment, the puppy may be SICK. Please, please take her to the vet and make sure it is not a parasite or infection. Like someone said, she could die. And yeah I know vets are expensive, but do you want to flush your $250 investment down the toilet?
It looks like the majority is against rubbing her nose in it. It looks like from what you say these people you got her from don't know what the f$%& they are doing, keeping their dogs in a dirty environment...do you want to trust them for advice in training?
Listen to B(otherwise he will track you down...., just kidding, his icon is fear inspiring)
If you follow his posts he seems to know a lot and gives sensible advice. And of course Suki and Miakoda always seem to give reasonable advice. All others I am forgetting to mention...sorry.

[Montana250]

I just want to thank everybody for their insight. I will keep you all updated as to her progress. And I'll 86 the Beneful, I suppose.

[Suki]

found it:



http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12604

[KilaDaKilla]

interesting enough, i am going through the exact same problem right now. i got my pup two weeks ago and she eliminates in her crate over night. it is frustrating but it does seem to slowly getting better for her. shes only 11 weeks old as well and she is crate training right now. i usually feed her in the morning and late evening. but i think i am going to try what the others have said, no food or water after 5. i also know her warning signs and am able to take her out in time and praise her heavily. shes a smart learner and it is obvious that she doesn't like going in her crate. she also seems to know that what she did was bad and thats why i dont punish her for going in her crate. i am somtimes gone for long periods of time. if she goes before i leave, she usually wont go in her crate, but i am not always able to wait for her to go before putting her in the crate and thats when she goes in her crate. just stay positive and your pup will learn. good luck

[pennsooner]

The dogs might have the week, but the puppies have the weak ends. LoL.

[pepper_mommy]

my advise was not to feed his dog iams, BTW B, it was just what my puppy has been on since she was weened prematurely and is what she is able to digest and is what i have kept her on so i didnt change her up too much. i am sure i will eventually change her food, but we used to feed our champion show dogs eukanuba b/c that was the "it" food back then, we are all learning each day, so please dont warn people not to take advise i didnt give. :)

[cheese]

I dont think eukaneba is all that great for your show champs.

[Evil_Elvis]

Purina and Iams are CRAP foods! Do no listen to this advice! Both of those are sub-par supermarket feeds. Do a search on dog food and you will see "good" ones.

Regards,

B
purina doesnt spend millions in research to make crap feed but hey i gues "b" knows everything hence why he listed so many other brands

[miakoda]

purina doesnt spend millions in research to make crap feed but hey i gues "b" knows everything hence why he listed so many other brands
Ummm, Purina spends those millions in advertising their shit food to the average Joe, not in making the shit food.

Let's put it simply: Purina's #1 ingredient in their food is corn. Dogs do not & can NOT digest corn. Therefore................ you do the math.

[Evil_Elvis]

Ummm, Purina spends those millions in advertising their shit food to the average Joe, not in making the shit food.

Let's put it simply: Purina's #1 ingredient in their food is corn. Dogs do not & can NOT digest corn. Therefore................ you do the math.
well you tel me why old timers swear by it then you do the math and since your a pig "hunta" do you have any photos of the hunts

[Evil_Elvis]

Ingredients

Chicken (22%), Rice (18%), Maize gluten, Dehydrated poultry protein, Maize, Animal fat, Wheat, Digest, Beet pulp, Dried egg, Yeast, Fish oil, Calcium phosphate, Potassium chloride, Sodium chloride, Calcium carbonate, Minerals, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine. Copper (as Copper Sulphate) 12 mg/Kg. Vitamin A 21000 IU/Kg, Vitamin D3 1600 IU/Kg, Vitamin E 170 mg/Kg, Vitamin C 70 mg/Kg. Antioxidant: Tocopherol rich extracts of natural

main ingredient is not corn you do the math

[Suki]

Actually Purina makes a bottom of the line quality food. One star.

http://www.animalarkshelter.org/animal/PetFoods.nsf/$$PetFoodsByManu?OpenForm




" Dead Cats & Dogs Used To Make Pet Food "

We see pictures of whole grains, prime cuts of meat and human grade vegetables on the bag, and we assume there's some chef in a pet food kitchen cooking up the best for our loved ones. Unfortunately, this is far from the truth.Most of what makes up dog and cat food comes from the rendering plant.

To render, as defined in Webster's Dictionary, is "to process as for industrial use: to render livestock carcasses and to extract oil from fat, blubber, etc., by melting."When chickens, lambs, cattle, swine, and other animals are slaughtered for food, usually only the lean muscle is cut off for human consumption.This leaves about 50 percent of a carcass left over. These leftovers are what become what we so commonly find on pet food labels, such as "meat-and-bone-meal" or "by-products.

"So basically, what pets eat are lungs, ligaments, bones, blood and intestines.Some other things that go into rendering to make your Cat and Dog Food are:

* Euthanized companion animals Cats a Dogs

* Spoiled meat from the supermarket, Styrofoam wrapping and all

* Road kill that can't be buried on the roadside

* The "4 D's" of cattle: dead, dying, disease and disabled

* Rancid restaurant grease

When dead animals from cow pastures are picked up, they may not be rendered until up to a week after they are dead. Because of this, it is estimated that E. coli bacteria contaminate more than 50 percent of meat meals.

The rendering process destroys the bacteria, but it does not eliminate the endotoxins bacteria release when they die.

These endotoxin, which can cause sickness and disease, are not tested for by pet food manufacturers.When all this comes to the rendering plant, it's put in a huge vat and shredded.Then it's cooked at 220 to 270 degrees for 20 to 60 minutes. After it cools, the grease is skimmed off the top.

This is "animal fat." The rest is pressed and dried. This is "meat and bone meal."Dogs wouldn't eat this stuff in the wild, so why will they eat it out of their bowls? Their noses are tricked by the smell of it. The smell of animal fats for dogs and fish oil for cats is sprayed on the dry, bland kibble bits to make them appetizing.

These flavors usually come from rendered restaurant grease, animal fat, or other oils unfit for human consumption. Huge conglomerates use pet food companies as a cheap, and even profitable, way of disposing of the waste from their human food companies. Three of the five major pet food companies are owned by these huge corporations.

Who owns what? Corporation & Pet Foods:

Nestle: Alpo, Fancy Feast, Friskies, Mighty Dog, Purina

Heinz: 9 Lives, Amore, Gravy Train, Kibbles-n-Bits, Nature's Recipe

Colgate-Palmolive: Hill's Science Diet

Proctor & Gamble: Eukanuba and Iams

Mars: Kal Kan, Mealtime, Pedigree, Sheba, Waltham's

Hmmmmm, "millions on reasearch"?
...doubt it's all going towards a pet's nutritional requirements, and having your pets' best interest, at heart ...

[miakoda]

well you tel me why old timers swear by it then you do the math and since your a pig "hunta" do you have any photos of the hunts
First, do you do anything other than try to pick fights in your posts?

Second, ole timers also swear by Ole Roy but then again, THAT'S ALL THEY HAD BACK IN THOSE DAYS SO THEY KNOW NO DIFFERENCE! Try having your top competition athletes try to perform in the same manner using the nutrition of 300 yrs ago. Performance would suffer immensely.

Maybe B, myself, & the majority of the others on here are wrong, but we all kind of assumed that people would want the best possible nutrition for their animals in order for them to not only live a healthier life, but also to help them condition & perform better. Guess not..................

As for pictures, yes, we have some. But trying to take pretty pictures & handle 2-3 catch dogs isn't my idea of a great time. But I'd be more than happy to scan them in & post some in the next few days. Hell, I'll even phone my brothers & friend to see if they want to post some up as well. :D

[miakoda]

Ingredients

Chicken (22%), Rice (18%), Maize gluten, Dehydrated poultry protein, Maize, Animal fat, Wheat, Digest, Beet pulp, Dried egg, Yeast, Fish oil, Calcium phosphate, Potassium chloride, Sodium chloride, Calcium carbonate, Minerals, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine. Copper (as Copper Sulphate) 12 mg/Kg. Vitamin A 21000 IU/Kg, Vitamin D3 1600 IU/Kg, Vitamin E 170 mg/Kg, Vitamin C 70 mg/Kg. Antioxidant: Tocopherol rich extracts of natural

main ingredient is not corn you do the math
LOL. Yes, but if you knew how to read a label, then you'd also realize that chicken is nowhere near the top ingredient. Add up all the rice, corn gluten (that's "maize" btw), corn, wheat, bee pulp..................all crap. And chicken is mostly water so unless it's "chicken meal", then you're getting basically nothing out of that sole ingredient either.

[Evil_Elvis]

go for it but your still avoiding the point that you got proved wrong on the ingredient and i havent met a single person seruious about dogs that has used ol roy but maybe in louisiana but you also dont condition a puppy and thats what this thread was about and you dont feed kibble usually during a keep were talking about an average puppy

[Evil_Elvis]

they are not required to list the ingredients in order

[tommy3]

go for it but your still avoiding the point that you got proved wrong on the ingredient and i havent met a single person seruious about dogs that has used ol roy but maybe in louisiana but you also dont condition a puppy and thats what this thread was about and you dont feed kibble usually during a keep were talking about an average puppy
I have never met a single person serious about dogs that has used Purina either!

[sedaliapitbulls]

Take some news paper and rip it in 1" shreads and line the kennel. When she poos then and moves around it will ball up and not be so messey. Just a helpful little hint I learned from a friend. hopefueally that will work till you get her poty trained.

[14rock]

Actually, ingredients are listed in order of their weight BEFORE cooking. Since it is "chicken" and not "chicken meal" (chicken with the water already drained out) you must figure 75% of that meat source is water. After cooking, and the water is removed, you are left with only 75% of whatever percentage you figured Chicken as (I believe it was 18, I'm not going to go back to look).

No, you dont condition puppies, but you also dont want to feed them crap and expect the best out of them when mature. If I had a son I could raise him until he was 18 on mcdonalds and brownies, but I better not expect anything other than a lazy couch potato that will only live to 50 with severe health problems! If I wanted to raise a healthy, happy, athlete his diet would obviously be diffrent and to expect a marathon runner on micky d's and brownies is foolish.

[miakoda]

Why would I feed a puppy crappy food & risk his health as an adult? It's like treating your child under the age of 15 like shit & the one over the age of 15 like a king. Doesn't make sense.

And puppyhood is the most important stage of life IMO where they need quality nutrition. As for "proving me wrong", I'm not. 14rock restated it for you & although I've only got a minor in human nutrition, I have been devoting much of that edumacation into researching canine nutrition.

No amount of arguing is going to make Purina or Eukanuba quality feed. There's just nothing in the foods themselves to back up those statements. (Oh yeah, & Ole Roy is almost identical to Purina Dog Chow so let's don't make assumptions that Purina is better just b/c it's a "namebrand" food)

[B]

purina doesnt spend millions in research to make crap feed but hey i gues "b" knows everything hence why he listed so many other brandsDo a search on dog foods means we've covered this a hundred times. You get what you put into the dogs and feeding them crap is going to get your crap. I've yet to find a single person that knows a lick about nutrition ever mention quality, Iams or Purina in the same sentence. As everyone already pointed out, Maize is corn. Chicken (not meal) is byproducts and majority of it water. Dried and in the meal it probably represents less than the amount of corn. Corn being the #1 ingredient is not far from the truth. We all know dogs don't process corn and it is just a filler. Many dogs are allergic to it. But what do I know, my only purpose is to lie to people over the internet and help people take worse care of their dogs. As everyone is aware my only job here is to present bullshit and lies. I'm a fountain of misinformation. :rolleyes:

Regards,

B

[pepper_mommy]

interseting where this thread went to...lol. cheese, just to let you know...if you had read the entirety of my post, you would have realized that i used the phrase "back in the day" and "because that was the "it" food back then" so i am sorry what you feel is right for my champs or not as i dont have any...lol...i have one puppy with no papers.


lets try real hard guys to read everyones posts...as 2 people gave credit to one person for *restating* everything i had already posted on the same page! just b/c someone's name isnt highlighted doesnt mean that they arent capable of typing a response worth reading.

:) i am done.

[Montana250]

Boy, I've created a small monster with this thread. Without causing another major discussion, will a couple veterans here just put down the top 3 foods for a growing puppy for me and today I'll go out and purchase one.

[pennsooner]

Take some news paper and rip it in 1" shreads and line the kennel. When she poos then and moves around it will ball up and not be so messey. Just a helpful little hint I learned from a friend. hopefueally that will work till you get her poty trained.Good, practical advice, I was going to suggest paper training first.








Evilelvis: You remind me of the song "Mesobetmia(sp)" by the B-52's. It contains the lyric "Before I talk, I should read a book". Purina makes more than one type of feed, but none of them is very good and some are pure crap.

[Evil_Elvis]

well thats nice pennsooner and dont assume these people are veterans to the dogs B couldnt even keep his own dogs had to get rid of them thats how devoted he is and mia finds all her info on the internet thats why before when i was on here she would never show hog pics everytime you would ask she would disappear for a couple days

[Evil_Elvis]

and if serious dog men dont use purina ask Norrod,Garner, and hammonds for just a few

[tommy3]

Boy, I've created a small monster with this thread. Without causing another major discussion, will a couple veterans here just put down the top 3 foods for a growing puppy for me and today I'll go out and purchase one.You are going to get different replies. Everyone has their own opinion. Mine is:

Timberwolf Organics
Natures Variety
Dick Van Pattens

[miakoda]

well thats nice pennsooner and dont assume these people are veterans to the dogs B couldnt even keep his own dogs had to get rid of them thats how devoted he is and mia finds all her info on the internet thats why before when i was on here she would never show hog pics everytime you would ask she would disappear for a couple daysAs for your "demands" to see all my dogs, grow up. It's no one's business how many dogs I have & what they look like. If I wanted to post all my business on the internet I would, but I chose to be smart. Maybe you should quit running your mouth & try it.

And before you go bashing people, poking fun at their personal life, & making light of serious issues, take a look at yourself.........your no god. A respectible man doesn't spit in the face of others when they've gone through hard times like you just did to B.

And if you hate this site so much, find a new one & go pester those people with your petty arguments & personal attacks.

As for the food, no amount of you defending shit is gonna make is gold. Shit is shit is shit & I don't care who feeds it.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

2 months old ( got here only 2 weeks ago) and having major issues in the potty department. Getting up twice a night to take her out and still we are waking up to a filthy cage. She's crapping then stomping in it and jumping up paws first to get more of it everywhere. I can understand if we just said "the hell with it" and let her deficate but we are TAKING HER OUT as I have said and even twice. Plus we are cutting off food at 7-8 pm! I asked a friend to ask his friend who has several pits/dogs and he just discounts these actions as "that's the way some puppies are". Unfortunately, this isn't sitting well with the wife who wants her gone. Tell me this will end someday or what I'm doing wrong....
First, you should have waited at least another month (3 months of age) to get this pup. As this dog will be a pet bull (and very possibly was created from pet bull parent), socialization with his siblings would have aid him in adulthood to deal better with other dogs.

Second, is the stool soft (diarrhea like) or firm? If soft, it may be that the dog is not assimilating the kibble. If you are willing, you may opt in giving it semi-cooked ground meat (with puree greens) for the next two months or so. Otherwise, you may choose to feed a combination of kibble (throughout the day) and semi-raw (no greens needed if kibble is part of diet)ground (turkey or beef). If you choose to feed kibble and semi-raw, DO NOT FEED THEM TOGETHER! Kibble and raw foods have different rates of digestion and may upset their stomachs if fed together. Thus, if you feed semi-raw (not sure but I do not think a 2-month old pup is ready for true raw feed) in the later part of the day, it will help it not have these issues in the middle of the night.

Third, please have a consistent "going out" schedule. This is very important. You may add more "going out" but never less. In addition, if you add an additional time out, continue with the schedule. Do not assume that because you took him on an unscheduled 2:30pm "out", his regular 3:00 can be disregarded. Dogs are creatures of habit.

Fourth, as stated, never explode on a pup for doing something it could not help. Afterall, he is still a pup (baby).

IMHO, when you stated that she is stepping on it, I thought it is intentional. What else can she do? She is in a kennel with very limited space. Do you really think she is intentionally trying to dirty all her kennel with her dirty paws? I think she is trying to get away from the dirty floor (it just happens that she has dirty paws).

Anyway, I am concern about the welfare of the pup. It sounds like she is in danger of ending in a shelter because of a human's lack of preparation and pre-thought on what entails to be a dog owner (not referring to the breed). If you are not prepared for basic puppy issues, how will you deal with issues directly related to our breed?

This is why I always send people interested in dogs to shelters. It is much better to start your pet ownership with an adult.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Just read how the thread changed to kibbles.....personally, I fed Purina Dog Chow (I will admit for a few years), then tried Canidae (a few months) and now feed a raw diet. I can state that a few months of serious research will help any PET BULL owner (non-athlete dogs) convert to a raw diet. I made the differentiation between bet bull nutritional needs and the nutritional needs of an athlete dog because the latter will require a more precise balance diet than a dog lofting around the house most of his life. This is true in human athletes' diet versus average Joe's diet as well.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

well thats nice pennsooner and dont assume these people are veterans to the dogs B couldnt even keep his own dogs had to get rid of them thats how devoted he is and mia finds all her info on the internet thats why before when i was on here she would never show hog pics everytime you would ask she would disappear for a couple days
What the....?

What is your post's purpose? Are you trying to state that on this forum there are many members with varied degrees of knowledge and experience? I hope this is what you INTENDED to state. There is no merit in mentioning someone else's private business. Having a zillion dogs or having to find homes for a few does not equate to vetaran status or lack of devotion respectively.

An intelligent person gives (or finds) responses. An ignorant tries to make others seem more like himself. Which will you be?

[Liza111]

2 months old ( got here only 2 weeks ago) and having major issues in the potty department. Getting up twice a night to take her out and still we are waking up to a filthy cage. She's crapping then stomping in it and jumping up paws first to get more of it everywhere. I can understand if we just said "the hell with it" and let her deficate but we are TAKING HER OUT as I have said and even twice. Plus we are cutting off food at 7-8 pm! I asked a friend to ask his friend who has several pits/dogs and he just discounts these actions as "that's the way some puppies are". Unfortunately, this isn't sitting well with the wife who wants her gone. Tell me this will end someday or what I'm doing wrong....I went through the SAME thing, I got my pup at 6 weeks but let her sleep next to me on the floor, I was getting up between 1 to 4 times a night for a while & then that finally went away at about 2 months.

The problem I had was when I kenneled her to go to work, she would poop & pee in there & then step all in it. I think some dogs just don't care. I put a divider in her kennel to make it smaller & that didn't matter she'd still do the same thing.

Now when my other pup would have an accident in his kennel he would poop in the corner of the kennel & sit on the opposite side & Never step in it.

I really think it all depends on the dog, every now & then she will do that & she just turned 1.

The best advice I can give is to take her out on a timer meaning take her out every half & hour & at night set your alarm clock for maybe every 3 hours or something along those lines till she is maybe 3 months.

It DOES get better, I felt the same way your wife did in the begining & felt like giving up MANY times, U just have to hang in there.

Good Luck to ya!

[the_flamingo]

Just wanted to add. I got Jaha when he was 12 weeks old and haven't had a accident in the house with him after the 4th day we brought him home. We did ALOT of positive reinforment with him, really praising him after he went outside and he picked it up incredibally quick. Taking him out alot helped, we took him out 2-3 times during the night and several more times during the day. We would also put him in his crate and leave the house for an hour or two, come back and let him out and that really helped his crate training. In about a week and a half you would tell him crate and he'd run in it just fine and not whine or anything like that. Really, he was the most problem free puppy I've ever had, lol.

[pennsooner]

well thats nice pennsooner and dont assume these people are veterans to the dogs B couldnt even keep his own dogs had to get rid of them thats how devoted he is and mia finds all her info on the internet thats why before when i was on here she would never show hog pics everytime you would ask she would disappear for a couple days

Well,I don't know B, his advice on conditoning seems pretty good. As far as getting rid of dogs, a lot of people seem to me to have WAY more dogs than they can care for well. Maybe B decided to cut back so he could focus more attention on what he had.

Regardless of who feeds it, purina isn't very good food, even at its best. Due to cost some people with large yards might feel its their best option and maybe it is. If I had a large yard I'd feed raw and hunt a lot to keep cost down.

If, like the folks who started the thread I just had one or two dogs (and I do) and fed kibble, I'd feed a top of the line kibble like Timberwolf. LESS POOP, lower vet bills on the whole. And with a pup, I'd add in a little goats milk.


But the fact is, I am no dogman and don't claim to be. My wife handles feeding of our one dog. But, she is a VERY smart woman, and has worked HARD to learn about dog nutrtion. Some people just have a shorter learnig curve.

[B]

I did what I had to do. Messy split with an ex made my living conditions very unstable. I'm currently selling my house and bunking with some friends until I can buy another. I can't take over a dozen dogs with me to my friends house. I still have all the dogs necessary to repeat anything I gave to friends. I made the decision that I was forced to. I don't feel I have to explain myself to you but at least I'm telling the whole story. I don't have anything to hide, I've spoken about my situation many times in chat. What's the purpose of your internet warrior antics and personal bashing? I thought we were talking about dog feed and helping this man get control of his puppies movements. I don't see a single one of your comments that is helping anyone.

Regards,

B

[Evil_Elvis]

http://www.purina.com/science/facilities/ResearchDevelopment.aspx

http://www.purina.com/Science/Facilities/
plus you can visit links to their immunology, molecular, physcological research centers .. I looked at canidae's and a few other "great" kibble sites and i couldnt find any info on their research facilities. Mia, since your a canine nutrition expert and studied it, maybe you can post your research material and results of all your molecular, genetic, immunology, ect research for a dog's entire life cycle? I'd certainly love to read it!

And i never said all their kibble was good.. I simply mentioned one. its funny how if one doest agree with the general population that they are automatically wrong. I never said purina pro plan was great, yet it is not crap either.. Mia, you would actually be surprised at what kennels feed it .. what a devil lol

as for paper traning. Why teach a dog to go inside the house when you want them to go outside? the simplest solution to the problem is get your pup on a schedule that matches yours. Get up in the middle of the night and let the pup out. Every 2 to 4 hours. You cannot expect a pup to hold it for 8 hours if they've never had the oppurtunity to exercise their muscles in learning to hold it. Make sure you also play with your pup outside AFTER it goes as this will stop the pup from sniffing around and playing first instead of going first. You will condition your pup into thinking the sooner i use the bathroom outside, the sooner I get to have fun.

and never withhold water. If you have to offer water then wait and take the pup out, do it, but withholding water isnt good. Pups and dogs need water to help with digestion, stay hydrated just like people. You wouldnt hold water from a child.

[pepper_mommy]

why in the hell are we still going on with this? its pretty obvious that evil isnt into listening to advise and even the OP realized what was going on and is barely making an appearence here. i say ignore the ones that are trying to stir the sh*t and answer for the OP and when the OP is satisfied, close it! it makes me sick to see someone airing someone elses dirty laundry like this. evil, didnt i see a post by you that said you learned your lesson? it doesnt appear so, and i am new here!! as far as miakoda and B, i also may not agree or like all their advise but if they are willing to waste their time giving answers, take it for whatever its worth...if you dont like the advise, dont change!!! TA-DA!!! Its really not rocket science! and i am not kissing anyones ass, not my style....but i do know when a thread is plain rediculous and this one has become just that. the OP said he would 86 the beneful, he also keeps talking about a friend of a friend is a supposed whatever and seems very stubborn on changing a view, so be it. as far as this elvis guy goes, we went from puppy crate training to dog food ingredients to messy break ups to pig hunting. sheesh!!! if you have nothing to add for the OP's question.....quit typing!!!:rolleyes:

to the OP...its been 2 days, any change?? whats the update?

[Suki]

well thats nice pennsooner and dont assume these people are veterans to the dogs B couldnt even keep his own dogs had to get rid of them thats how devoted he is and mia finds all her info on the internet thats why before when i was on here she would never show hog pics everytime you would ask she would disappear for a couple days


Pretty rude, petty, and pointless to the thread!


stick to the topic, please....
If the information you will be adding is beneficial, then by all means, continue typing. If it's to insult those here that are trying to help, then save it for a PM.
No one here is saying anything about "right" or "wrong", suggestions are meerly being made. Take them for what they're worth.

[Montana250]

It has been better the past couple days. Who knows, maybe it was a 3 day blitz and this is the end of it. I have taken the advice of setting the alarm clock every 3 1/2 hours to get up and check on her. Plus, no food is given after 5 pm. We are currently in the process of swtiching foods from Beneful ( which many on here say is crap....even though she's growing like a weed) to Wellness Super5Mix for puppies.

Oh, and just because I mentioned my wife is getting frustrated doesn't mean this dog is going to end up in a shelter. That's just ridiculous.

[cemoreno]

I feed Diamond Naturals large Breed Puppy, it makes there BM's small black and practically odorless it's wierd watch out for gas though. What I did with my dogs was I hung a bell on the door knob, and every time we go out I say potty outside and ring the bell loudly! And they got the point! Two days after installing the bell on the door Kasha was ringing it to go potty! I was so amazed at how well it worked for her the puppy on the other hand is still trying to get the hang of it. Try the Bell on the door if your dogs are quiet like mine and don't whine.

[pepper_mommy]

glad to hear a few good days montana. hopefully you will start getting longer stretches of sleep soon!