Vets and Hill's Science Diet

[Suki]

Why do so many vets recommend this food, yes, including the one I (ahem), work for? Read on and see.

Science Diet is a pet food that is often recommended by veterinarians, and is heavily advertised, so many people buy it, thinking they are giving their pets the best product on the market. The fact that it is pretty popular doesn't make it a quality product though.
Why is Science Diet recommended by veterinarians?

The answer is simple and Tara Parker-Pope of the Wall Street Journal probably said it best in her article "Why Vets Recommend 'Designer' Chow" (reprinted here (http://www.simplyschnauzer.net/hills.html)):

[...] Borrowing a page from the pharmaceuticals companies, which routinely woo doctors to prescribe their drugs, Hill's has spent a generation cultivating its professional following. It spends hundreds of thousands of dollars a year funding university research and nutrition courses at every one of the 27 U.S. veterinary colleges. Once in practice, vets who sell Science Diet and other premium foods directly from their offices pocket profits of as much as 40%. [...]"So there you have it - veterinarians don't recommend this food because they are convinced it's a great product, but because they make a profit and have other personal benefits. To the contrary of what many people think, nutrition is not a major subject in veterinary schools, and most of the courses offered are sponsored by one of the pet food giants. Any vets specializing in nutrition or following a holistic approach do their own research outside of what they were taught at college. If you look at books about pet nutrition, you will find that pet food companies are involved in those too. Need some examples?

The Waltham Book of Companion Animal Nutrition
Does Waltham (http://www.waltham.com/) ring a bell? Pedigree, Whiskas, Cesar, Sheba? The stuff you find on the shelves of the pet supply aisle at your grocery or department store?
Canine and Feline Nutrition: A Resource for Companion Animal Professionals.
Daniel P. Carey, Diane A. Hirakawa and Leighann Daristotle, all three of them employees of the IAMS Company in leading positions. The fourth person, who edited this book, is Linda P. Case, the only independent on the team.Look at others used as textbooks at veterinary schools and investigate the authors. You'd be surprised at the level of involvement of the pet food industry. But I don't want to spin conspiracy theories here. No doubt that research is needed to learn more about how to keep our pets healthy, and that it has to be funded somehow - but as a consumer I do not appreciate being left in the dark, much less mislead purposely about what is best for my pet. So back to the topic at hand:

Have you ever looked at the ingredient lists of Science Diet products?

And compared those ingredients to the claims Hill's makes about the quality of their foods? Well, I have. And frankly, it disgusts me how many people get scammed into buying an overpriced product of poor quality just because they don't know much about what they are actually feeding their pets.

Adult Original?
Mostly grains with some chicken and chicken byproducts, animal fat and some chicken liver flavor. 48.1% carbohydrates.

Adult Beef (or Chicken or Lamb) & Rice Recipe?
Some beef, chicken or lamb and some rice or rice fragments, but mainly other grains (corn meal, soybean meal, ground grain sorghum, ground wheat), some chicken byproducts (except in the lamb variety - and yes, even the "beef" variety most likely has more chicken byproducts than beef!), animal fat, beet pulp and flavors. 50.6%, 50.2% and 48.7% carbohydrates respectively. I'm beginning to get the impression we are trying to feed cattle here, not animals with a carnivorous background!

The other "normal" foods of the main product line follow pretty much the same principle, but it gets worse when we get to the so-called "light", "oral care", "sensitive stomach" or "senior" products. 16% "soybean mill run" (read floor sweepings) and 10.8% peanut hulls? And you are paying how much per bag for this crap? $29? $33? $38? More??? Talk about being taken for a ride. Did your vet recommend that too?

But it gets better yet. We haven't discussed the fairly new "Nature's Best" line yet. It's available " with real beef (http://www.hillspet.com/products/product_details.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=25343743 02037387&bmUID=1079143943165&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441760411)" or "with real chicken (http://www.hillspet.com/products/product_details.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=25343743 02037387&bmUID=1079143943165&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441760413)". Go have a look at the product labels, I'll wait.

Did you check it out? Good. What did you see? As you may know (or not), the ingredients are listed by descending weight proportions as they appear processing. What I see is that the first two ingredients are rice fractions and wheat and the third is turkey. The "real" beef or chicken is listed 7th and not even among the main ingredients (http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/index.php?page=identify). As per AAFCO labeling rules (http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/index.php?page=li101), a product labeled "with [something]" only has to include a minimum of 3% of the named ingredient by total weight. Out of the 6 main ingredients, 4 are grains or grain byproducts, one is a poor quality source of fat (rendered from nonspecified animals, possibly including euthanized pets) and only one is actually an animal-based protein. Peas, carrots and flavorings in small quantities round out the "wholesome goodness found in nature" advertised by the manufacturer as "real beef/chicken, real garden vegetables and wholesome grains - the best of everything". Mind you that not even USDA inspected ingredients are used, so my guess would rather be feed grade grains and poor quality meat.

It's hard to believe that even that can be topped, but they did it!

Yes, it is possible. Believe it or not. Enter "Science Diet Advanced Protection (http://www.hillspet.com/products/product_details.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=25343743 02037387&bmUID=1079143943165&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441761805)" - the ultimate scam, Hill's attempt to secure its market share, riding on the more and more popular natural/holistic wave. I present you the ingredient list of this product with "patent-pending breakthrough of nutritional technology":

========== Main ingredients ====================
corn meal (not ideal as a first ingredient, which should be a quality source of animal protein)
chicken by-product meal (anything but quality cuts of meat!)
soybean meal (a byproduct of manufacturing process of soybean oil)
animal fat (rendered fat of unspecified animals, possibly diseased, decayed or even euthanized pets)
========== Present in lesser quantities ============
flaxseed (no complaints here)
chicken liver flavor (a higher amount of a flavoring ingredient than vegetables? interesting...)
dried egg product (a byproduct of the egg grading industry instead of fresh, whole eggs?)
dried carrots (instead of fresh carrots?)
dried spinach (instead of fresh spinach?)
dried grape pomace (when it is known that grapes can be toxic to dogs (http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=grapes)?)
dried tomato pomace (a byproduct of the tomato processing industry instead of whole, fresh tomatoes?)
dried citrus pulp (the dried residue of peel, pulp and seeds of oranges, grapefruit and other citrus fruit - a byproduct more suitable as cattle feed, but in this product actually marketed to make the consumer think it's "citrus fruit"?.)
vegetable oil (could be worse I suppose, but a specific oil like sunflower oil would be preferable.)
oat fiber (as opposed to whole grain oats that include the entire range of nutrients?)
and some amino acid supplements, rosemary extract, minerals and vitamins.

[Suki]

Just for comparison I'll list the ingredient list of a true quality product that has a similar formula but actually includes quality ingredients:

Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, turkey meal, brown rice, pearled barley, lamb meal, oatmeal, chicken fat, dried eggs, fish meal, natural flavoring, canola oil, flaxseed, fresh potatoes, fresh carrots, fresh peas, whole fresh apples, cranberries, dried chicory root, salt, potassium chloride, lecithin, garlic, vitamins, dehydrated kelp, minerals, yucca schidigera extract, sage extract, digestive enzymes and probiotics.

The manufacturer of the above mentioned quality product guarantees that all ingredients are human grade and free of antibiotics or hormones - an assurance of quality you will never hear from Hill's. If I told you that this food costs about the same (or even less) per 35 lb bag than Science Diet "Advanced Protection", would you believe me? What about if I said that one 35 lb bag of this quality food would last longer than 35 lbs of "Advanced Protection" because it contains less grains and more quality animal protein - and thus is more digestible?

So are you still getting scammed or already looking into a better dog food?

Don't be fooled, Hill's is not the only company trying to convince you to shell out your hard earned money for a poor quality product. Many other pet food manufacturers are doing the same thing, all you need to do is watch the cute, colorful commercials on TV or walk down the pet food aisle at your grocery or department store. Heck, even your local pet store is likely to have more crappy brands than good ones on their shelves.

So for the sake of your dog (and the same goes for other pets as well!), next time you go shopping for pet food, don't just toss a random bag with a bargain price tag into the cart, but look at the ingredient list.

Or even better, do your homework (http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/index.php?page=identify) beforehand so you actually know what to look for.:)

[pennsooner]

This post should be a sticky, IMO. Unless you've looked into it, a lot of people think Science diet and eukenuba are great foods. Good info.

[debodebo]

Great posts. I used to think science diet was the best food. That is until I went to www.dogfoodanalysis.com (http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com) I found out that the food that I thought was the best was actually the worse. I feed my puppy Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lover's Soul (http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=519&cat=3) because its the best food that I can get were I'm located.

[brat pack]

So Suki, what about Natural Balance dog food? Or Solid Gold Wolf King? My local stores don't carry the Candidae (I think I spelled that right) yet but say they are getting it in. My one girl was having problems with allergies, runny eyes, occassional hot spots, and I tried the Solid Gold and am having good results. But was thinking of going to Natural Balance b/c it is geared more towards dogs with allergies. What is your opinion? I also get my dog food nutritional guide from the Whole Dog Journal. Most of the products they rate aren't in my area though. I people did their homework more like you say, they wouldn't buy this crap for their dogs. The man I bought my males from swore by Ol Roy and I wouldn't take that food if it was free. But you can't tell people anything. He and he is a bodybuilder, he of all people should know how important nutrition is to your body.

[asaj]

The way I understand it is that vets in USA get their license from a board and not the government.
And like Suki wrote, pet food giants and medicine manufactors are pushing alot of money in the vet. education and some of them are probably in the board, that give them their license.
As a vet. if you dont follow " their ways" in terms of food, medications, vaccines ect, the board will take away the vets license. So if a vet recomend B.A.R.F. or recomend that you dont have to have yearly boster vaccinations they can not practise as vets any more.
I do respect vets, but to me ,they are not here to help us keep our dogs healty, they are here to fix them when they are sick!

[miakoda]

As a vet. if you dont follow " their ways" in terms of food, medications, vaccines ect, the board will take away the vets license. So if a vet recomend B.A.R.F. or recomend that you dont have to have yearly boster vaccinations they can not practise as vets any more.
Thankfully, this is NOT true. ;)

Our clinic has nothing to do with the selling or marketing of foods. We carry no prodcuts whatsoever & only have an adjoining pharmacy in our name. However, we do have a "connecting" pet store (we used to be connecting, but have now moved into a larger building across the street) that sells all kinds of products from foods to toys to bedding to collars.....you ge the hint. However, it's nice to say that that store pushes foods such as Nature's Variety, Natural Balance, Timberwolf, etc. & not the crap although they do carry Diamond & the "premium" Eukanuba junk. They do NOT carry your grocery store brands.

I understand the frustration b/n pet owners & vets, but I ask you to PLEASE don't write off all vets as nutritional idiots b/c that's not the case. I have yet to hear one of our 8 vets refer a client to a poor quality food. And if we were all money hungry villans, then why would we choose to not partake in the dogfood business? Hmmmm?

And as for vacination schedules, well, it's true we "follow" the standard schedules b/c right now there is just NOT enough evidence to prove otherwise. However, we do take each dog into consideration & there are many a cases that we suggest to the owners that they would be fine vaccinating every other year. EXCEPT on the rabies vaccine. Why? Because it's the STATE LAW that dogs & cats are vaccinated/registered on a yearly basis (LA). If you don't like it or agree with it, take it up with the government because the vets don't write the laws. With older animals, we also suggest no longer vaccinating with the 8in1 & just sticking to the Rabies vaccine b/c chances are a 10 yr old dog is perfectly fine without it. And I also want to bring up 2 more points. 1) vaccination titers are known to give false positives when in fact a dog is not protected against a certain virus/disease, so why would one place 100% of trust in them? & 2) in the makings of most of your 5in1, 7in1, & 8in1 vaccines, some of the vaccine components are indeed 3 year vaccines, HOWEVER many are only 1 year components.....& just as with any case study, there needs to be more than just 10 yrs of subpar case results to justify a change in protocol.

But I do remind everyone that as a pet owner, you are free to pick & chose what you vaccinate your dog against or even if you want to vaccinate at all. So don't blame the vets.

[purplepig]

Have you ever looked at "Beef and More" from Sam's club? I met the people who are making the stuff about 8 or 9 years ago and after talking to them, I switched. Now, I am no dog nutritionalist, so please correct me if I am wrong, but they told me that dogs digest meat. So if the protein is in soy and all other vegitarian type stuff that the dog passes most of the nutients. They said that their product is mainly beef, and that is why I can feed the dog less, it makes less of poop, and the stool is pretty solid (easy cleanup). I have no bag to list the ingredients, but will get some more Friday or Saturday and will list them, if you want.
thank you so much for the info you listed, as it reminds me to get my head back out of the sand!!
P Pig

[Marty]

Is this it?
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=174598

[14rock]

Post a ingredient list when you can, thats the only way we can tell you if its decent or not ;)

[PIT_DOMINATION]

Can you guys give me a list of good foods that have a lot of meat in it? What are your opinions on purina? I live in a small town so the only thing I really have access to is a wal-mart..so we don't have very many options..Any input would be appreciated...

[PIT_DOMINATION]

Here's an ingredient list from Purina Puppy chow that we are currently feeding to our puppies, (in order) Let me know whatcha think...


Ground Yellow Corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluton meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), pearled Barley, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, animal digest, salt, egg product, potassium chloride, ...after that its most stuff like manganese sulfate and things like that...

I've already had bad experiences with Ol' Roy, so I'm just looking for a good all around nutricious food for growing puppies and their mother. Help would be great.

[14rock]

Wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot poll. The first and Third are ingredients the animal can't even utilize, and is 100 percent nothing more than a bag-filler and binding agent. Way too many grains, barely any real meat "by-product meal" doesnt cut it. Theres a reason its so damn cheap, grow a few corn stalks out back and throw your dog some fresh picked ears...probably about the same ammount of nutritional value (might have more "meat" in it, just by adding up the ammount of bugs!).

If you are sincere about feeding something better you may pm me and I can point you in a few diffrent directions.

[Attila]

Sounds gross. That meat by product is gross too. I visited a chicken plant up in Southwest City MO and that crap is rotten left overs ground up feathers, Maggots, rats and all. And to think my half brother used to eat dog food. I about vomited. They have to bleach it and dye it to make it presentable. Mmm bologna anyone.

[PIT_DOMINATION]

i went to the store, and the only thing that seemed to be even a tiny bit better was this lamb and rice formula..tell me your thoughts on this...

(in order of appearance)

Lamb Meal, Brewers Rice, soybean meal, ground yellow corn, ground wheat, wheat middlings, beef tallow preserved with BHA..so on and so forth

[Suki]

What most consumers don't know is that the pet food industry is an extension of the human food and agriculture industries. Pet food provides a market for slaughterhouse offal, grains considered "unfit for human consumption," and similar waste products to be turned into profit. This waste includes intestines, udders, esophagi, and possibly diseased and cancerous animal parts. Three of the five major pet food companies in the United States are subsidiaries of major multinational companies: Nestlé (Alpo, Fancy Feast, Friskies, Mighty Dog, and Ralston Purina products such as Dog Chow, ProPlan, and Purina One), Heinz (9 Lives, Amore, Gravy Train, Kibbles-n-Bits, Nature's Recipe), Colgate-Palmolive (Hill's Science Diet Pet Food). Other leading companies include Procter & Gamble (Eukanuba and Iams), Mars Mealtime, Pedigree Sheba Waltham, and Nutro.

Meat meals and By-products

Meat and poultry meals, by-product meals, and meat-and-bone meal are common ingredients in pet foods. The term "meal" means that these materials are not used fresh, but have been rendered. What is rendering? Rendering, as defined by Webster's Dictionary, is "to process as for industrial use: to render livestock carcasses and to extract oil from fat, blubber, etc., by melting." Home-made chicken soup, with its thick layer of fat that forms over the top when the soup is cooled, is a sort of mini-rendering process. Rendering separates fat-soluble from water-soluble and solid materials, removes most of the water, and kills bacterial contaminants, but may alter or destroy some of the natural enzymes and proteins found in the raw ingredients. Meat and poultry by-products, while not rendered, vary widely in composition and quality. What can the feeding of such products do to your companion animal? Some veterinarians claim that feeding slaughterhouse wastes to animals increases their risk of getting cancer and other degenerative diseases. The cooking methods used by pet food manufacturers -- such as rendering, extruding (a heat-and-pressure system used to "puff" dry foods into nuggets or kibbles), and baking -- do not necessarily destroy the hormones used to fatten livestock or increase milk production, or drugs such as antibiotics or the barbiturates used to euthanize animals.

Wheat, Soy, Corn, Peanut Hulls, and Other Vegetable Protein

The amount of grain products used in pet food has risen over the last decade. Once considered filler by the pet food industry, cereal and grain products now replace a considerable proportion of the meat that was used in the first commercial pet foods. The availability of nutrients in these products is dependent upon the digestibility of the grain. The amount and type of carbohydrate in pet food determines the amount of nutrient value the animal actually gets. Dogs and cats can almost completely absorb carbohydrates from some grains, such as white rice. Up to 20% of the nutritional value of other grains can escape digestion. The availability of nutrients for wheat, beans, and oats is poor. The nutrients in potatoes and corn are far less available than those in rice. Some ingredients, such as peanut hulls, are used for filler or fiber, and have no significant nutritional value.

Two of the top three ingredients in pet foods, particularly dry foods, are almost always some form of grain products. Pedigree Performance Food for Dogs lists Ground Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, and Corn Gluten Meal as its top three ingredients. 9 Lives Crunchy Meals for cats lists Ground Yellow Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, and Poultry By-Product Meal as its first three ingredients. Since cats are true carnivores -- they must eat meat to fulfill certain physiological needs -- one may wonder why we are feeding a corn-based product to them. The answer is that corn is a much cheaper "energy source" than meat.
Although the purchase price of pet food does not always determine whether a pet food is good or bad, the price is often a good indicator of quality. It would be impossible for a company that sells a generic brand of dog food at $9.95 for a 40-lb. bag to use quality protein and grain in its food. The cost of purchasing quality ingredients would be much higher than the selling price. The protein used in pet food comes from a variety of sources. When cattle, swine, chickens, lambs, or other animals are slaughtered, the choice cuts such as lean muscle tissue are trimmed away from the carcass for human consumption. However, about 50% of every food-producing animal does not get used in human foods. Whatever remains of the carcass -- bones, blood, intestines, lungs, ligaments, and almost all the other parts not generally consumed by humans -- is used in pet food, animal feed, and other products. These "other parts" are known as "by-products," "meat-and-bone-meal," or similar names on pet food labels. Just a little info. There's lots of it out there. IMO, Purina is lousy food.

[Marinepits]

Thankfully, this is NOT true. ;)

Our clinic has nothing to do with the selling or marketing of foods. We carry no prodcuts whatsoever & only have an adjoining pharmacy in our name. However, we do have a "connecting" pet store (we used to be connecting, but have now moved into a larger building across the street) that sells all kinds of products from foods to toys to bedding to collars.....you ge the hint. However, it's nice to say that that store pushes foods such as Nature's Variety, Natural Balance, Timberwolf, etc. & not the crap although they do carry Diamond & the "premium" Eukanuba junk. They do NOT carry your grocery store brands.

I understand the frustration b/n pet owners & vets, but I ask you to PLEASE don't write off all vets as nutritional idiots b/c that's not the case. I have yet to hear one of our 8 vets refer a client to a poor quality food. And if we were all money hungry villans, then why would we choose to not partake in the dogfood business? Hmmmm?

And as for vacination schedules, well, it's true we "follow" the standard schedules b/c right now there is just NOT enough evidence to prove otherwise. However, we do take each dog into consideration & there are many a cases that we suggest to the owners that they would be fine vaccinating every other year. EXCEPT on the rabies vaccine. Why? Because it's the STATE LAW that dogs & cats are vaccinated/registered on a yearly basis (LA). If you don't like it or agree with it, take it up with the government because the vets don't write the laws. With older animals, we also suggest no longer vaccinating with the 8in1 & just sticking to the Rabies vaccine b/c chances are a 10 yr old dog is perfectly fine without it. And I also want to bring up 2 more points. 1) vaccination titers are known to give false positives when in fact a dog is not protected against a certain virus/disease, so why would one place 100% of trust in them? & 2) in the makings of most of your 5in1, 7in1, & 8in1 vaccines, some of the vaccine components are indeed 3 year vaccines, HOWEVER many are only 1 year components.....& just as with any case study, there needs to be more than just 10 yrs of subpar case results to justify a change in protocol.

But I do remind everyone that as a pet owner, you are free to pick & chose what you vaccinate your dog against or even if you want to vaccinate at all. So don't blame the vets.
Great info, Mia, and I couldn't agree with you more!

My vet and good friend read this thread and here is her reply to me (she agreed to let me post her thoughts):

"I can tell you 100% that we do NOT benefit financially with selling Science Diet or the veterinary line. Hills does support a lot of veterinary research, as does <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:CITY w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">Waltham</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY>, Purina, and other reputable companies. Thank god! The veterinary profession has learned a wealth of knowledge from companies like that. As with anything, doctors are taught to read scientific data without blinders on. EVERY SINGLE COMPANY that does research tried to spin in to show that their product is the best. We are taught to look at the data objectively. To say that all vets are out to make money, etc is the same as saying that all pit bulls are evil. I would expect better from a owner who I am sure has experienced prejudice before! We receive NO "kick backs" whatsoever.... for anything!"

And in regards to vets not having nutritional training:

"We have entire courses on nutrition in the veterinary curriculum ... we have to take Organic Chemistry, Biochemistry, countless biology and basic chemistry courses, along with nutrition being integrated into all of physiology courses. It is a lie to say that we get paid for selling their food. I PAY for it just the same as ANYONE else. I would also say that those diets are NOT for everyone."

Just my (and Dr. Ali's) two cents.

[jada girl]

now im am nervous and confused. i feed jada eukanuba mixed with raw meat i get from a pet store in jersey.she loves the meat i put a lil dry found to make sure she getting everything she needs, (what the guy at the store told me and his dogs are gorgeus) any way what are some of the best dry foods out there nothing but the best for jada.

[newbieturtlepits]

Here's an ingredient list from Purina Puppy chow that we are currently feeding to our puppies, (in order) Let me know whatcha think...


Ground Yellow Corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluton meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), pearled Barley, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, animal digest, salt, egg product, potassium chloride, ...after that its most stuff like manganese sulfate and things like that...

I've already had bad experiences with Ol' Roy, so I'm just looking for a good all around nutricious food for growing puppies and their mother. Help would be great.walmart and some grocery stores have a customer preferred brand list and if you would like a product to be in the store you may ask them to carry it and mostly they will ,, i wouldnt feed anything that said corn first.. im okay with corn as something to add a little fiber in the diet and the dogs love it but i dont put alot in the food.... chicken is first , chickn meal- crushed process bone- next brown rice veggies eggs, and then the oils and omega 6,9 .. calcium , yeast garlic and the like my doctor knows i make dog food and for the last 24 years has backed me and says to me i have the healthest longest living pets becuz of the way i care for them .. some friends have said they wanna be my pet in next life..the on going laugh when im cooking .is .... if it smells good its dog food !!

[Suki]

Can you guys give me a list of good foods that have a lot of meat in it? What are your opinions on purina? I live in a small town so the only thing I really have access to is a wal-mart..so we don't have very many options..Any input would be appreciated...
here is some decent info:
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts

[gil230]

Here in Belgium, Vets also push Science diet onto everyone. I guess it's the same all over ther world when it comes down to the might dollar..cough..cough..Euro.

[J M A N]

Science diet is crap and I would never feed it to my dogs.

Excellent article Suki!.

[chinasmom]

Yep!!!! My vet has stacks of the stuff.

[RightHandImp]

Thanks for the nice post, this is a lot of what I learned while working high quality pet food... SD= BAAAAD, Iams= BAAAD ugh, two of the most popular foods.

Anyhow, good job on the ingredients listing!

[JRP]

Ok now would someone please post some good namebrand dogfoods. Thanks.

[InFa-[BLUE]-BeAm]

Take It From Me. I Worked For Science Diet As A Sales Man For Them For Over A Year. If You Are Going To Feed Science Diet, You Might As Well Feed Pedigree, And If You Are Going To Feed Nutro You Might As Well Feed Pedigree For That Matter. And You Are Right, Science Diet Donates Alot Of Money To Vet Schools Or Whatever. Oh Yeah Their Food Was Recalled Too.

[InFa-[BLUE]-BeAm]

Bil-jac Is Great Stuff...only Available At Petsmart. Pricy Though :(

[Katerina]

Thx for this article SUKI, I always knew Science Diet is a crap... once I gave it to my dogs, and what was then going on, ohh - better not to talk ... but the same is with Eukanuba and RC, in my opinion... there is nothing good in this food beside the marketing and advertisments... all this is construated like for pigs not for dogs...

[InFa-[BLUE]-BeAm]

you guys really should talk to a bil-jac rep. RC EUK NUTRO SCIENCE DIET....ITS ALL BASICALLY THE SAME, BECAUSE ITS ALL MADE THE SAME WAY. AND THEIR INGREDIENTS ARE ALL PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS WELL. THEY MAY USE MORE OF THIS THAN THAT, OR HAVE IT LINED UP IN A DIFFERENT ORDER. BUT FOR THE MOST PART ALL THE INGREDIENTS ARE THE SAME ALSO. SO IF ITS GOT HTE SAME INGREDIENTS AND COOKED THE SAME WAY....ITS ALL THE SAME JUST IN A DIFFERENT BAG. TRY THE BIL-JAC STUFF ITS GREAT. I FED IT TO MY DOGS FOR A WHILE BUT CANT AFFORD TO RIGHT NOW.

[PADogman]

-BeAm;283930']Bil-jac Is Great Stuff...only Available At Petsmart. Pricy Though :(
Bil-Jac is crap

[jeeperino]

-BeAm;283983']you guys really should talk to a bil-jac rep. RC EUK NUTRO SCIENCE DIET....ITS ALL BASICALLY THE SAME, BECAUSE ITS ALL MADE THE SAME WAY. AND THEIR INGREDIENTS ARE ALL PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS WELL. THEY MAY USE MORE OF THIS THAN THAT, OR HAVE IT LINED UP IN A DIFFERENT ORDER. BUT FOR THE MOST PART ALL THE INGREDIENTS ARE THE SAME ALSO. SO IF ITS GOT HTE SAME INGREDIENTS AND COOKED THE SAME WAY....ITS ALL THE SAME JUST IN A DIFFERENT BAG. TRY THE BIL-JAC STUFF ITS GREAT. I FED IT TO MY DOGS FOR A WHILE BUT CANT AFFORD TO RIGHT NOW.

If u cant afford bil jac u should have less dogs. Research raw & supplements, if u do it right you can save $$ and feed better.

[InFa-[BLUE]-BeAm]

yeah was looking at that barf diet

[Hells Bells]

I feed Premium Edge it's made by the Diamond company. It's a 4 star dog food on dogfoodanalysis.com

[Marty]

I originally wrote this opinion piece for my personal blog on March 12th 2004 but decided it would be more acccessible to a wider audience in this location. You may link to this article directly, or reproduce it for non-commercial purposes, as long as my copyright notice, byline and all embedded links are left intact.

The Science Diet Scam
By Sabine Contreras, BetterDogCare.com, © Sabine Contreras 2004-2008

Of all the crooks in the commercial pet food industry, Hill's (the maker of Science Diet and Prescription Diet foods) has got to be the worst. The fact that their slogan "Veterinarian Recommended" is a cleverly used trademark is just the beginning. If you don't know even some very basic facts about commercial pet food, I suggest you poke around on my Dog Food Website for a bit before reading on. Of course you can also read this article first and then go there to read up on the details you don't understand.

Warning: this is going to be a long read.

Let's dive in with a short summary:
Science Diet is a pet food that is often recommended by veterinarians, and is heavily advertised, so many people buy it, thinking they are giving their pets the best product on the market. The fact that it is pretty popular doesn't make it a quality product though.

Why is Science Diet recommended by veterinarians?
The answer is simple and Tara Parker-Pope of the Wall Street Journal probably said it best in her article "Why Vets Recommend 'Designer' Chow" (reprinted here):

[...] Borrowing a page from the pharmaceuticals companies, which routinely woo doctors to prescribe their drugs, Hill's has spent a generation cultivating its professional following. It spends hundreds of thousands of dollars a year funding university research and nutrition courses at every one of the 27 U.S. veterinary colleges. Once in practice, vets who sell Science Diet and other premium foods directly from their offices pocket profits of as much as 40%. [...]"
So there you have it - veterinarians don't recommend this food because they are convinced it's a great product, but because they make a profit and have other personal benefits. To the contrary of what many people think, nutrition is not a major subject in veterinary schools, and most of the courses offered are sponsored by one of the pet food giants. Any vets specializing in nutrition or following a holistic approach do their own research outside of what they were taught at college. If you look at books about pet nutrition, you will find that pet food companies are involved in those too. Need some examples?

The Waltham Book of Companion Animal Nutrition
Does Waltham ring a bell? Pedigree, Whiskas, Cesar, Sheba? The stuff you find on the shelves of the pet supply aisle at your grocery or department store?
Canine and Feline Nutrition: A Resource for Companion Animal Professionals.

Daniel P. Carey, Diane A. Hirakawa and Leighann Daristotle, all three of them employees of the IAMS Company in leading positions. The fourth person, who edited this book, is Linda P. Case, the only independent on the team, but she also endorses the products this company manufactures.

Look at others used as textbooks at veterinary schools and investigate the authors. You'd be surprised at the level of involvement of the pet food industry. But I don't want to spin conspiracy theories here. No doubt that research is needed to learn more about how to keep our pets healthy, and that it has to be funded somehow - but as a consumer I do not appreciate being left in the dark, much less mislead purposely about what is best for my pet. So back to the topic at hand:

Have you ever looked at the ingredient lists of Science Diet products and compared those ingredients to the claims Hill's makes about the quality of their foods? Well, I have. And frankly, it disgusts me how many people get scammed into buying an overpriced product of poor quality just because they don't know much about what they are actually feeding their pets.

Adult Original?

Mostly grains with some chicken and chicken byproducts, animal fat and some chicken liver flavor. 48.1% carbohydrates.

Adult Beef (or Chicken or Lamb) & Rice Recipe?

Some beef, chicken or lamb and some rice or rice fragments, but mainly other grains (corn meal, soybean meal, ground grain sorghum, ground wheat), some chicken byproducts (except in the lamb variety - and yes, even the "beef" variety most likely has more chicken byproducts than beef!), animal fat, beet pulp and flavors. 50.6%, 50.2% and 48.7% carbohydrates respectively. I'm beginning to get the impression we are trying to feed cattle here, not animals with a carnivorous background!

The other "normal" foods of the main product line follow pretty much the same principle, but it gets worse when we get to the so-called "light", "oral care", "sensitive stomach" or "senior" products. 16% "soybean mill run" (read floor sweepings) and 10.8% peanut hulls? And you are paying how much per bag for this crap? $29? $33? $38? More??? Talk about being taken for a ride. Did your vet recommend that too?

But it gets better yet. We haven't discussed the fairly new "Nature's Best" line yet. It's available " with real beef" or "with real chicken". Go have a look at the ingredient lists, I'll wait.

Did you check it out? Good. What did you see? As you may know (or not), the ingredients are listed by descending weight proportions as they appear processing. What I see is that the first two ingredients are rice fractions and wheat and the third is turkey. The "real" beef or chicken is listed 7th and not even among the main ingredients. As per AAFCO labeling rules, a product labeled "with [something]" only has to include a minimum of 3% of the named ingredient by total weight. Out of the 6 main ingredients, 4 are grains or grain byproducts, one is a poor quality source of fat (rendered from nonspecified animals, possibly including euthanized pets) and only one is actually an animal-based protein. Peas, carrots and flavorings in small quantities round out the "wholesome goodness found in nature" advertised by the manufacturer as "real beef/chicken, real garden vegetables and wholesome grains - the best of everything". Mind you that not even USDA inspected ingredients are used, so my guess would rather be feed grade grains and poor quality meat.

It's hard to believe that even that can be topped, but they did it!
Yes, it is possible. Believe it or not. Enter "Science Diet Advanced Protection" - the ultimate scam, Hill's attempt to secure its market share, riding on the more and more popular natural/holistic wave. I present you the ingredient list of this product with "patent-pending breakthrough of nutritional technology" boasting a "unique antioxidant blend, sourced from ingredients like citrus fruits, carrots, spinach and tomatoes":

========== Main ingredients ====================
corn meal (not ideal as a first ingredient, which should be a quality source of animal protein)
chicken by-product meal (anything but quality cuts of meat!)
soybean meal (a byproduct of the manufacturing process of soybean oil)
animal fat (rendered fat of unspecified animals, possibly diseased, decayed or even euthanized pets)
========== Present in lesser quantities ============
flaxseed (no complaints here)
chicken liver flavor (a higher amount of a flavoring ingredient than vegetables? interesting...)
dried egg product (a byproduct of the egg grading industry instead of fresh, whole eggs?)
dried carrots (instead of fresh carrots?)
dried spinach (instead of fresh spinach?)
dried grape pomace (when it is known that grapes can be toxic to dogs?)
dried tomato pomace (a byproduct of the tomato processing industry)
dried citrus pulp (the dried residue of peel, pulp and seeds of oranges, grapefruit and other citrus fruit - a byproduct more suitable as cattle feed, but in this product actually marketed to make the consumer think it's "citrus fruit"?.)
vegetable oil (could be worse I suppose, but a specific oil like sunflower oil would be preferable.)
oat fiber (as opposed to whole grain oats that include the entire range of nutrients?)
and some amino acid supplements, rosemary extract, minerals and vitamins.

Just for comparison I'll list the ingredient list of a product that has a similar formula but actually includes clean, good quality ingredients:

Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, turkey meal, brown rice, pearled barley, lamb meal, oatmeal, chicken fat, dried eggs, salmon, natural flavoring, canola oil, flaxseed, fresh potatoes, fresh carrots, fresh peas, whole fresh apples, cranberries, dried chicory root, salt, potassium chloride, lecithin, garlic, vitamins, dehydrated kelp, minerals, yucca schidigera extract, sage extract, digestive enzymes and probiotics.

Continued below

[Marty]

The manufacturer of the above mentioned quality product guarantees that all ingredients are human grade and free of antibiotics or hormones - an assurance of quality you will never hear from Hill's. If I told you that this food costs about the same (or even less) per 35 lb bag than Science Diet "Advanced Protection", would you believe me? What about if I said that one 35 lb bag of this quality food would last longer than 35 lbs of "Advanced Protection" because it contains less grains and more quality animal protein - and thus is more digestible and provides better nutrition?

So are you still getting scammed or already looking into a better dog food?
Don't be fooled, Hill's is not the only company trying to convince you to shell out your hard earned money for a poor quality product. Many other pet food manufacturers are doing the same thing, all you need to do is watch the cute, colorful commercials on TV or walk down the pet food aisle at your grocery or department store. Heck, even your local pet store is likely to have more crappy brands than good ones on their shelves.

So for the sake of your dog (and the same goes for other pets as well!), next time you go shopping for pet food, don't just toss a random bag with a bargain price tag into the cart, but look at the ingredient list.

Or even better, do your homework beforehand so you actually know what to look for.

http://www.ourdogsonline.com/content/sciencedietscam.html

[StopBSL]

If your local stores only carry crap. . . buy online.
This online store has dog food, and an automated shipping program. (http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?searchterms=food) I looked at some of the prices and they are only a dollar or two higher than our local prices.

The first dog i ever had we fed beneful (unbeknownst to us that it's crap). I thank god that our first APBT had a wheat allergy. A few days on Beneful and she was red all over and covered in bumps. So, I did my research on pet food and found out what all those ingredients really were and what ingredients i needed to feed her.

From then on I have not let my dogs touch anything with Corn, Wheat, By-product of any kind, artificial colors, preservatives or flavorings or soybean meal.

I now work as a pet nutrition specialist for a dog food company. My job entails going into stores and trying to convert people onto better dog food. I do it unconventionally though because i approach it as a learning experience and teach them how to find a good food and what not to feed. then, if one of our varieties fits their budget and needs i sell it to them. if not, they now have the necessary tools to find a better dog food and the initiative to do it.

I have only met a few people who didnt care when they found out what was in their food. And all of them said "I just do what my vet says" in these cases I wish I could take their vet and give them a swift kick in the ass. But, there is nothing I can do about it.

The majority of people who feed science diet or Purina or eukanuba actually do beleive it's good for their dogs and are SHOCKED when they see how bad it really is. They are even more shocked to see that other foods cost LESS with better ingredients. Because here the price of science and eukanuba is higher than many of the better, less advertised brands.

We feed the Canidae Lamb and Rice. . . I know since the formula changed many people do not think it's as good as it was. But in truth the percentage of meat in the lamb and rice INCREASED and the percentage of grain DECREASED when they diversified the grains. This is because they added lamb when previously they only used Lamb meal and the amount of the grains used was decreased.

Info on the new formula from an online store (http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Canidae-Lamb-Rice-Dry-Dog-Food/102063.aspx)

And, since i started feeding the new formula my dogs coats have gotten shinier than they were before and the poops have gotten smaller. Go figure.

[mac 11]

Ok now this is just IMO and I didn't read all the post so it might have been said but here I go. ENDORSMENT I say that because every vet I've been to carries these feeds. Alot of the vets are under funded so I figure they donate these foods or sell at a very cheap price to vets and in an agreement sell at a high price which of a percentage goes to the vet for advertising and the rest goes to the company that makes it. There is no proof in that or any source behind that just what I think.

Mac 11 said that!