Is everyone starting a blood line?

[SEAL]

It seems to me that now everyone is trying to put there spin on the APBT. I see so many new kennels that i dont think a phone book would hold them all. Why is it that every feels like they should start a blood line? To me this is like trying to break into the auto industry in the US we've got what works and there really isnt a need for anything else. There are a lot of wana bes that seem to come and go.

Is it just because they are in popular demand right now? Does any one else have any insight to this.

I feel that there enough good lines out there that many people think just because they raised a couple of dogs off of some good stock they should rename them and consider themself a kennel. To me this just doesn't make sense. You are building off of someone else's proven stock and im not to sure that many of these folks have IMPROVED anything.

[14rock]

Its just another way for them to gain respect and ego 99 % of the time.

[rocksteady]

It seems to me that now everyone is trying to put there spin on the APBT. I see so many new kennels that i dont think a phone book would hold them all. Why is it that every feels like they should start a blood line? To me this is like trying to break into the auto industry in the US we've got what works and there really isnt a need for anything else. There are a lot of wana bes that seem to come and go.

Is it just because they are in popular demand right now? Does any one else have any insight to this.

I feel that there enough good lines out there that many people think just because they raised a couple of dogs off of some good stock they should rename them and consider themself a kennel. To me this just doesn't make sense. You are building off of someone else's proven stock and im not to sure that many of these folks have IMPROVED anything.
yes, but where do you think those good lines /kennels got their dogs from? they started with good proven stock from other proven bloodlines. they proved what they had, bred and raised /tested/culled over and over litter after litter for themselves, not for fame, money, because they have "people who want pups from my dog". Thats the big difference. A good breeder doesnt start a bloodline because there's a demand for their dog or because they think this and that will produce great pups ..they start their bloodline by proving what they have, breeding them, testing and proving them, then improving and testing until
Just because a kennel advertises they have a "bloodline" doesnt make it so. 10 dogs from various lines bred a few hundred times doesnt consitute a bloodline.. Many of those kennels start on the journey but fail to have the experience, money, time and patience to fully achieve their own bloodline..all they do is ruin someone elses hard work.

[SEAL]

thats what im saying rock most ppl that deserved to have a line named after them sorrells boudrouex colby put decades of work into their dogs and probly never went commercial or public for 10-20 years. everyone is in a hurry no one comes out and says i have 20 dogs on the yard and 18 of them are titled certified etc
they got 2 dogs and now they are something. wtf is that about.
its like being a new nfl team winning three bowl games and being a legacy no your an upstart and have yet to really prove anything.

[Defend2DaEnd]

I agree with you Seal. Too many "breeders" are breeding their pets and calling themself a kennel. Some people shouldn't even be allowed to breed.

[catcher T]

I have issues with ppl breeding their dogs period,,no matter what breed ya have it better be top quality,,but all bloodlines have to come from somewhere,,just like any other breed.

[SEAL]

they have and wouldnt most agree that we have quality blood lines allready? Do we really need to re invent this animal with new and improved dogs?

What are these new breeders brining to the table?

How many Solid New blood lines are out there?

[catcher T]

yeah,,I know what your talking about,,breeding should be all about bettering the breed,,if it ain't broke....

[SEAL]

I personally knew guys down in N.O. that had man eaters that they bred bcs they thought that made for better fighting dogs or some crap like that. Look how crazy he is oh man i got to get a pup off him. Where personally had i owned that dog it would have gotten a walk out back and a last meal.

The more people i meet the more i agree with simms in the fact that many people shouldnt own animals let alone large dogs. Heck i dont think some of the people i meet should have children but ya know.

[catcher T]

LOL,,hey,,I told one of my friends that she was to stupid to own a dog,,I see ppl everyday their own dogs are biting them! my friend has to cats now

[Defend2DaEnd]

Does she want another cat??? I have a Siamese and we don't like each other. He pooed in the shower while I was in there!

[ABK]

Does she want another cat??? I have a Siamese and we don't like each other. He pooed in the shower while I was in there!
OMG too funny!!!! At least my cat waits until I get out of the shower! http://thorstenkaye.com/bahaha.gif

BTW, my guy is a Siamese mix. Wonder if the Siams just like poo'ing in showers???

[catcher T]

not to get off subject,,but if a cat isn't using the litter box,,it is ALWAYS a medical problem,,they don't plot,,and say " I am going to make this person mad and doodoo in the shower" it is their way of telling you something is wrong,,common with doodoo outside the litterbox is usually anal glands,,common,,inappropriate urination is bladder infection,,did it squish between you toes?

[Pitbullwill]

It seems to me that now everyone is trying to put there spin on the APBT. I see so many new kennels that i dont think a phone book would hold them all. Why is it that every feels like they should start a blood line? To me this is like trying to break into the auto industry in the US we've got what works and there really isnt a need for anything else. There are a lot of wana bes that seem to come and go.

Is it just because they are in popular demand right now? Does any one else have any insight to this.

I feel that there enough good lines out there that many people think just because they raised a couple of dogs off of some good stock they should rename them and consider themself a kennel. To me this just doesn't make sense. You are building off of someone else's proven stock and im not to sure that many of these folks have IMPROVED anything.
To me it's a big pyramid scam. When I first got into APBT a while back I wasn't dreaming of breeding them are anything like that all I wanted was a pure bred dog. After I recieved my first APBT I feel in love with the bred and the history around them. I read everything I could get my hand's on, but unfortunaly the only people that I came into contact with this info were people that were breding them. Everytime I turned around I was told if I bought one of thiers I could make money off the pup's and so on and so on. Me being the ripe age of 23 figured that hey this city needs someone that breed right and make sure the puppy's don't die and stuff. Well I couldnt have been more wrong. My reason's for breding over the years has changed and my opinion about who bred's these dog's for money has changed alot also. Right now the only thing that I bred for is myself and some friend's. I hate it. Right now I have 8 grown APBT and this for me is alot to give the time and to work with them is hard enough while having a full time job but at the same time I wouldn't give any of them away. About 6 months ago my females had come into heat at the same time so instead of leaving them out side and having just any ol dog wounder up and bred them(or try never has happened) we put them inside in crate's I work at night so my wife usualy let's the dog's out in the afternoon. She took her eye's off of my female Storm for a minute and she got locked up with Taz SO we had to deal with another litter. Found good homes for them none really from here even though I did advertise on another web-site. That's my reason for putting that in there. Anyway's Im rammbling, I bred for myself not to make everyone else happy. Also abother thing I have noticed about people when they get into these dog's and start to get into the peds it's kindda like when I was in Jr. high when everyone was trading baseball cards, but instead of trading your breeding. I even have a web-site that my nephew did for me a while back it has a kennel name but I dont reg. as a kennel. But to answer your question about why is everyone starting their own bloodline, I dont think so they may be trying but in the end that first dog that they bought for all that money will still be the same blood 10 years from now. People will always use the great dog's to describe their own dog's, example "my dog's are 3/4 jeep crossed with 1/8 redboy and an 1/8 of Zebo so they got some mouth". Just my opinion but it's what I see.

[Rockstar]

...wouldnt most agree that we have quality blood lines allready? Do we really need to re invent this animal with new and improved dogs?
A breeder should always strive to improve the quality of his dogs. There should always be a purpose for every breeding, other than "Oh, I have two Jeep dogs. I'm going to produce more Jeep dogs." Competition drives an increase in quality. The sporting competitor must produce better dogs than his competition if he's to have any hope of winning. If I add ten more Jeep dogs to the vast pool that's already out there, how is that going to be of benefit to me or the breed? Why do you suppose most people will choose a dog with a pedigree full of winners and ROM titles over a dog without? It's because the ancestors of the first dog were proven to be better than those they competed against, thus improving the odds of this dog to be of a higher quality than the next guy's. But...if 5000 other dogs have pedigrees that look a lot like yours, then you have yourself nothing more than an average-bred dog. A breeder should never be content with that, unless his sole purpose is the preservation of a line. Of course, while I'm busy preserving a line, the competition is going to be kicking my ass with their "new and improved dogs.";)

[Wayne]

I only breed quality dogs I have gotten from well known Old Timers.I`m not in it to make mony just quality bull dogs.If I get some recignition from it down the line that would just be an added plus.I don`t believe in these fly by night kennels who breed for colors and fat house dogs for no purpose and sell for a $5,000 lap dog.

[Home of Cujo]

Without putting out any kennel names what want be lines are there?

[Pitbullwill]

I only breed quality dogs I have gotten from well known Old Timers.I`m not in it to make mony just quality bull dogs.If I get some recignition from it down the line that would just be an added plus.I don`t believe in these fly by night kennels who breed for colors and fat house dogs for no purpose and sell for a $5,000 lap dog.

What kind of recognition would you recieve? I mean If you already have "quality dog's" that you bought from some of the old timer's than you wouldn't really be doing any work that the "old timer's" already have. All you have to do is bred the dog's again and chances favor you that your going to get a better % of quality dog's because all the work has already been done.

[SEAL]

Lets not turn this into whose line is garbage. I dont like when people generalize like that. But there are some current lines that due to their popularity amongst the fad owners have become less than desirable in my mind. look around youll catch on to what im saying. rockstar as usual you nailed it.

your reason should never be I do it for myself ( no offense as i did notice somone said this in their post), some things in life should be done for the GREATER Good.

[Iverson's Pits]

i think people are chasing a dream of becoming the next "R.E." the money dave has made off his own dogs is quite enough, but he also started a club called the "elite edge." if you are a member, you pay HIM $600 per year, and are advertised onthe E.E. site. there are something like 100 "kennels" on E.E. lets do the math. 600 X 100 = $60,000 per year. that's more than some of us make at our jobs. aspirations to make the easy money (as the founder of R.E. doesn't even breed anymore...rarely) and whatever "acclaim" or "street cred" is associated with it is what i believe people are after. that's why you get people who buy one or two dogs from a popular "kennel" and start calling themselves a "kennel" ...who's are gonna "change the game" and have "the nations next top stud." its a cycle that will eventually go away, when all of their dogs start to either die at birth or resemble troll-like english bulldogs with chronic debilitating health issues with life spans of 4-5 years. if the breed is here long enough....just wait and see.

[lockjaw]

whats next purple pitbulls with pink polk a dots...i'll take a "ofrn" over a blue mastiff pit any day..but thats just me...my opinion...blue owners dont get all butt hurt..

[TRENCHHOUND]

i think people are breeding to much to many kennels,but in 10 years the old timer may be gone.now the young buck breeds a few gr ch and ch that breeds gr ch and ch now he the new old timer.but even the old timers aren't always honest.every generation is different and with some of the things younger people deal with old timer didn't have to and vice versa.some times people make these old timer sound like saints.just my opinion

[PiTBuLL200416]

Alot of people breed for different reasons now I'm young and some say I'm to young but I've done my research and I've studied and I know about the true APBT. I would never harm this breed in any way, shape, or form. If I was to breed it would be to fight off all those other so called APBT breeders that cross this beautiful breed with something just make it look a certain way. I wouldn't breed for my ego or profit and I wont just start a kennel out of no where. I know how precious this breed is and even though I did study I know I got a million more things to learn before I even think about starting a kennel. All I got to say is if you know the breed, understand the breed, love the breed ( the real breed), and know why you breed then maybe you'll be ready and I am in the process of getting there.

[sajoseph]

i think people are chasing a dream of becoming the next "R.E." the money dave has made off his own dogs is quite enough, but he also started a club called the "elite edge." if you are a member, you pay HIM $600 per year, and are advertised onthe E.E. site. there are something like 100 "kennels" on E.E. lets do the math. 600 X 100 = $60,000 per year. that's more than some of us make at our jobs. aspirations to make the easy money (as the founder of R.E. doesn't even breed anymore...rarely) and whatever "acclaim" or "street cred" is associated with it is what i believe people are after. that's why you get people who buy one or two dogs from a popular "kennel" and start calling themselves a "kennel" ...who's are gonna "change the game" and have "the nations next top stud." its a cycle that will eventually go away, when all of their dogs start to either die at birth or resemble troll-like english bulldogs with chronic debilitating health issues with life spans of 4-5 years. if the breed is here long enough....just wait and see.
I have read how many people feel about the RE bloodline. And I am not here to argue or start any slinging, but MY OPINION is that Dave has started the EE because he wants the RE line to carry on. Even though the kennel(whomever it may be) says a name, they still advertise the RE line. So, on the papers it may state the new kennel name, but the dog is still RE(if they didnt mess it up!) With all the champions and such RE once had, there are still bound to be RE dogs throwin' just as great puppies out there.

I think people have to be careful. I do agree w/ "just anything" poppin up everywhere to seem to fit the "fad" at the moment. That's wrong.

[Iverson's Pits]

im not bashing R.E. or Dave Wilson for making the E.E. program/site and makin money off it. To each his own, and its extremely successful for him. I just think that his type of legacy is what others are after.



I have read how many people feel about the RE bloodline. And I am not here to argue or start any slinging, but MY OPINION is that Dave has started the EE because he wants the RE line to carry on. Even though the kennel(whomever it may be) says a name, they still advertise the RE line. So, on the papers it may state the new kennel name, but the dog is still RE(if they didnt mess it up!) With all the champions and such RE once had, there are still bound to be RE dogs throwin' just as great puppies out there.

I think people have to be careful. I do agree w/ "just anything" poppin up everywhere to seem to fit the "fad" at the moment. That's wrong.

[Txbkennel]

E.E. has fewer members than you may think due to it's leaders trying to make kennels sell dogs on their yard at prices that they set and they will kick you out if you don't or if you try to buy from someone not in E.E. I think it's gotten a little extreme. Dave has began to breed again and I just hope he doesn't fall into the sloppy breeding that is going on. There is another program called True Tank, it's a lot like E.E. as far as keeping the circle small, getting titles, and having some top knotch R.E. dogs, but they still have some kinks to work out. In fact, a lot of the top dogs came from Dave, and they get along with E.E. pretty well. If it weren't for paper hanging and BYB's, most of the R.E. could still be as great a line as it once was.

[Iverson's Pits]

Aside from Dave's breeding-beginnings being in effort to achieve a "look" as he himself clearly points out...the dogs he was working with to achieve his look were awesome dogs. He bred game-dogs, 'staffs, conformationally correct dogs, and the like. It was After the R.E. name was a "hit" that the dogs started going WAY down hill. If he is breeding again...I would assume and hope that he tries to reverse the negative trend that is happening with his old line of dogs. Take a look at Devil's Den Viper to see what I'm talkin about.

http://www.devilsdenpitbulls.com/html/viper.html


E.E. has fewer members than you may think due to it's leaders trying to make kennels sell dogs on their yard at prices that they set and they will kick you out if you don't or if you try to buy from someone not in E.E. I think it's gotten a little extreme. Dave has began to breed again and I just hope he doesn't fall into the sloppy breeding that is going on. There is another program called True Tank, it's a lot like E.E. as far as keeping the circle small, getting titles, and having some top knotch R.E. dogs, but they still have some kinks to work out. In fact, a lot of the top dogs came from Dave, and they get along with E.E. pretty well. If it weren't for paper hanging and BYB's, most of the R.E. could still be as great a line as it once was.

[Iverson's Pits]

oh...and i just counted...there are 53 "kennels" paying to be on the E.E. site. Still...that's almost 32,000 bucks

[Txbkennel]

Believe me when I say I know every R.E. kennel out there and their reputations. I've seen Viper in person. He looks even worse in the photos, but they are probably promoting him as bigger or whatever else. He is also a terribly inconsistent producer. If looks is what they are after, he doesn't have it as far as offspring go...they are leggy and he doesn't produce heads...he produces closer to the standard APBT...Devil's Den doesn't have the best reputation. They have a stud fee of $5,000 on Lil' Ro, but it's $2,500 to members(yeah, that's a real deal), but of course some people prize him highly. A dog and his offspring are worth what the buyer thinks he is though, I guess.

Yeah, Dave has made a killing and a lot of people hate on him for that, but do you think they would have turned down the opportunity to be in his shoes? Fat chance...I think dog kennels are the only thing the Gov't hasn't gotten to. If they knew what he was making off this, he would be trying to claim his dogs as dependents on his taxes...LOL!

By the way, it seems that he is trying to get R.E. back on the right track. He is bringing the Old School R.E. dogs out of retirement. When I defend R.E. dogs on a thread, these are the ones I am defending...Not these paper-hung-sloppy-bred-unculled-BYB-creations running around.


Aside from Dave's breeding-beginnings being in effort to achieve a "look" as he himself clearly points out...the dogs he was working with to achieve his look were awesome dogs. He bred game-dogs, 'staffs, conformationally correct dogs, and the like. It was After the R.E. name was a "hit" that the dogs started going WAY down hill. If he is breeding again...I would assume and hope that he tries to reverse the negative trend that is happening with his old line of dogs. Take a look at Devil's Den Viper to see what I'm talkin about.

http://www.devilsdenpitbulls.com/html/viper.html

[Iverson's Pits]

what do you mean by that? what dogs is he messin with now? does he have a site up and running?



Believe me when I say I know every R.E. kennel out there and their reputations. I've seen Viper in person. He looks even worse in the photos, but they are probably promoting him as bigger or whatever else. He is also a terribly inconsistent producer. If looks is what they are after, he doesn't have it as far as offspring go...they are leggy and he doesn't produce heads...he produces closer to the standard APBT...Devil's Den doesn't have the best reputation. They have a stud fee of $5,000 on Lil' Ro, but it's $2,500 to members(yeah, that's a real deal), but of course some people prize him highly. A dog and his offspring are worth what the buyer thinks he is though, I guess.

Yeah, Dave has made a killing and a lot of people hate on him for that, but do you think they would have turned down the opportunity to be in his shoes? Fat chance...I think dog kennels are the only thing the Gov't hasn't gotten to. If they knew what he was making off this, he would be trying to claim his dogs as dependents on his taxes...LOL!

By the way, it seems that he is trying to get R.E. back on the right track. He is bringing the Old School R.E. dogs out of retirement. When I defend R.E. dogs on a thread, these are the ones I am defending...Not these paper-hung-sloppy-bred-unculled-BYB-creations running around.

[Txbkennel]

He just got a pup off Cloverhill's Watuka Spirit(Paco)...Some other Cloverhill dogs are coming out of retirement. Forever Junior is out of retirement for a few select breedings. Diamond is being bred and so is Ice. Sadey's Paddington is doing a little something. And a few other dogs preceeding them in Pedigree. He doesn't have a site up yet, and I don't know if he will or if he will be using another kennel.

[wisconsindog]

i think you should always breed the dogs as hops of even better dogs than what you started with thats why i dont care if dog was scatter bred just care about the reason in the breeding and what the sire and dam have done and how good they produce i think if you have real good dogs iyo if you are trying to make your bvown blood line better learn gentics will be very valuable then know your dogs really



I only breed quality dogs I have gotten from well known Old Timers.I`m not in it to make mony just quality bull dogs.If I get some recignition from it down the line that would just be an added plus.I don`t believe in these fly by night kennels who breed for colors and fat house dogs for no purpose and sell for a $5,000 lap dog.

[Iverson's Pits]

hopefully it works out, and people who are in a cult-like following for the name R.E. will follow. Cloverhill had some nice stuff, and i personally like paddington. we'll see what happens!


He just got a pup off Cloverhill's Watuka Spirit(Paco)...Some other Cloverhill dogs are coming out of retirement. Forever Junior is out of retirement for a few select breedings. Diamond is being bred and so is Ice. Sadey's Paddington is doing a little something. And a few other dogs preceeding them in Pedigree. He doesn't have a site up yet, and I don't know if he will or if he will be using another kennel.

[wisconsindog]

re show unless you hog dog and unless only use line up to 25 % in a breeding trust me & my buddy used this line

[japangame]

It seems to me that now everyone is trying to put there spin on the APBT. I see so many new kennels that i dont think a phone book would hold them all. Why is it that every feels like they should start a blood line? To me this is like trying to break into the auto industry in the US we've got what works and there really isnt a need for anything else. There are a lot of wana bes that seem to come and go.

Is it just because they are in popular demand right now? Does any one else have any insight to this.

I feel that there enough good lines out there that many people think just because they raised a couple of dogs off of some good stock they should rename them and consider themself a kennel. To me this just doesn't make sense. You are building off of someone else's proven stock and im not to sure that many of these folks have IMPROVED anything.
I will give my personal opinion. I was one of those wanna bes, but i never wanted to start my own bloodline, i just wanted to continue the old ones. I am a desendant of the Bell family,,,,i.e. the origianal Bell dogs, which stemed from alot of great pre lines. I think everyone should leave the lines alone and just continue the outstanding ones that were created in the first place. Forgive me if im being ignorant. I also believe that we need to get rid of all these breeders and keep it to the minimal and great. It is quite anouying to see everyone wanting to breed there dog to any apbt that comes around. Its those irresponsable people that are ruining it for the proffesionals. once again i am sorry for anything offensive that i might have said. Keep it game.

[wisconsindog]

keep it game and remain the same tru as you I will give my personal opinion. I was one of those wanna bes, but i never wanted to start my own bloodline, i just wanted to continue the old ones. I am a desendant of the Bell family,,,,i.e. the origianal Bell dogs, which stemed from alot of great pre lines. I think everyone should leave the lines alone and just continue the outstanding ones that were created in the first place. Forgive me if im being ignorant. I also believe that we need to get rid of all these breeders and keep it to the minimal and great. It is quite anouying to see everyone wanting to breed there dog to any apbt that comes around. Its those irresponsable people that are ruining it for the proffesionals. once again i am sorry for anything offensive that i might have said. Keep it game.

[sajoseph]

I saw somewhere in one of these replies..that dave is back to breeding-didn't you all see Dixies pictures? :):):)She is Re through and through, as a matter of fact, she is almost a clone to Knuckles, and as conformationally correct as he is as well. Yes, the old style RE is back and doing good. Dave is a smart man, and I agree, amny people "messed" w/ his line and started making monsters, and we were left with the "overdone" dogs you typically see w/ the RE line. Dixie is great, and a great example of what to expect!


He does have a site, but not many know about it. It just mostly shows "produced" and such.I imagine that will change.

[miakoda]

LOL. There is nothing about Knuckles that is APBT correct. The dog is a disgrace to the APBT name..............

[sajoseph]

LOL. There is nothing about Knuckles that is APBT correct. The dog is a disgrace to the APBT name..............
Why do you say that? He is the "old school" RE and has acheived GCH status, according to the UKC standard, he is perfect! I see there is quite a difference between the "game" dogs and "show standard" dogs, and wheteher or not you don't think the standards should be different, or the same as most "ADBA Game dogs" is irrelevant, he passed with flying colors, years ago, before the "fad" started on this breed, so that tells me he wasn't "best choice out of the garbage entered" at that time.

Just curious as to why you think this.I notice a difference in the dogs I see here(@ this forum) verses the dogs I see in show. Guess they are for different purposes.

[Sid Finster]

Want to see something depressing? Look up "gottiline" on your favorite search engine. You'll see enough BYB action to keep you busy for days.

Seems like every jackass with a couple pits has set himself up as a "kennel" now.

[KnottyBoyNC]

the internet is the problem

the bullshit kennels......the ones that are on the internet and advertise and sell their stuff to the public. with a very few exceptions

The good stuff is the kennels u have to know someone that know someone that know em and still wont sell u a pup.

[PEACE]

Want to see something depressing? Look up "gottiline" on your favorite search engine. You'll see enough BYB action to keep you busy for days.

Seems like every jackass with a couple pits has set himself up as a "kennel" now. Sooooooooo true