Question for the show folks

[ABK]

In some of the clubs I show through a hand-on exam is required, so my guys are used to being petted, examined etc. But I have problems w/ some of my dogs jumping sky-high & scaring the tar out of the judge when he checks their jewels & some of my gyps will sit down when he tries run his hands down their back legs. Now if I do it, they're fine, no reaction. But if a stranger does it the male invariably jumps & looks around like "hey!" & the gyp sits down. I know handling by strangers would help, but i've found not many ppl are willing to rub down a strange dog let alone walk up to a strange male dog & handle his coullions! I guess what I'm saying is good help is hard to come by. lol. Anyone got any advice for overcoming this??

[TabDogs]

I have actually only seen one judge "touch the dog" in the ring..and that was in AADR. Alot of dogs "in the heat of the moment" will excite bite..which is kinda of like a person saying get off me and swinging an elbow when someone tries to get in their way during and altercation. Dogs in the show ring (AADR & ADBA) are sometimes to close for comfort and the dog is racing back and forth between the dog on the left of them and the right of them. I know I have a few that are nuts in the ring. So with all this said not to many judges want to risk being accidently bit.

[tom9783]

In some of the clubs I show through a hand-on exam is required, so my guys are used to being petted, examined etc. But I have problems w/ some of my dogs jumping sky-high & scaring the tar out of the judge when he checks their jewels & some of my gyps will sit down when he tries run his hands down their back legs. Now if I do it, they're fine, no reaction. But if a stranger does it the male invariably jumps & looks around like "hey!" & the gyp sits down. I know handling by strangers would help, but i've found not many ppl are willing to rub down a strange dog let alone walk up to a strange male dog & handle his coullions! I guess what I'm saying is good help is hard to come by. lol. Anyone got any advice for overcoming this?? What kind of pit bull dog show do you go to where they touch the dogs nuts? That must be ukc shows, adba, aadr shows don't do that. I've been to hundreds of these shows and i have never seen that. lmao.:D

[Patch O' Pits]

In UKC they go over the whole dog . The balls are checked honestly to make sure they are both fully there

If your dog is showing UKC and has trouble with people touching him you may want to have your friends come over and practice with you or take some handling classes woith him to get him used to it

Also if you have trouble with the dog sitting or jumping up when his legs are touched it is the same as above... the more you can get other people to do it the better he'll be when it comes time for the judge

[GAPITS]

It is not as comman in the ADBA shows, but is in the rules so be prepared. I have seen judges go over the entire dog top to bottom at these shows.

[LadyRampage]

That surprises me... in all the years I've been going to the ADBA shows I have NEVER seen a judge even touch a dog in the ring. I didn't realize it was in the rules either. I've never worried about a judge touching one of mine, but I will definetly remember this now..


Now UKC is another story. I know the judge does touch the dog.. I dont' have any experience with UKC so I'll leave it to those that do.

[tom9783]

It is not as comman in the ADBA shows, but is in the rules so be prepared. I have seen judges go over the entire dog top to bottom at these shows.My wife sometimes judges those shows no rule for touching the dog in the adba. Don't know who told you that. or the aadr.

[shadyridgekennel]

we showing Rage at an ADBA show the judge touched her. he pulled her skin up to see if she was dry or wet lol

[tom9783]

we showing Rage at an ADBA show the judge touched her. he pulled her skin up to see if she was dry or wet lolthats funny. lmao.:D

[GAPITS]

My husband and myself have also judged our share of shows and spent the time to take the seminars at the yearly convention. This information comes direct from judges and the ADBA itself. It is not a rule that they have to, but it is allowed, it is up to the individual judge. The reason being crypt and mon -orchids are not always easily detected by site as well as bitches in heat. This has been a real issue on occasion (placing of these dogs recently has caused quite a stir at some events) and is being checked alot more closely as of late.

[tom9783]

My husband and myself have also judged our share of shows and spent the time to take the seminars at the yearly convention. This information comes direct from judges and the ADBA itself. It is not a rule that they have to, but it is allowed, it is up to the individual judge. The reason being crypt and mon -orchids are not always easily detected by site as well as bitches in heat. This has been a real issue on occasion (placing of these dogs recently has caused quite a stir at some events) and is being checked alot more closely as of late.It really is not that hard to tell if the dog has 1 testicle or no testicles showing. and has no bearing on weather it can breed or not. Thats the only reason i can imagine they would check at all. Which i have never seen happen at any show in the U.S.A. and as far as it being a flaw well theres more flawed dogs making champion than you would suspect in the adba. Overbites, uderbites, 90% of all judges for the adba don't have a clue what they are looking for thats a fact. They judge for the club that brought them there and give awards accordingly.

[GAPITS]

Well I am not sure how many shows you have been to lately of what judges you have seen at them, but it is something that is being done more frequently. I do not wish to argue this with you, take your own chances. Also crypt and mon -orchid is a major fault in the ring and a genetic flaw, it is no better than dogs that produce blindness or hip dysplasia. 25% of all litters born to dogs with this problem have the same problem. Dogs with this disorder have a much higher risk of cancer and should be spayed, neutered and removed from the breeding program of any responsible breder.

[tom9783]

Well I am not sure how many shows you have been to lately of what judges you have seen at them, but it is something that is being done more frequently. I do not wish to argue this with you, take your own chances. Also crypt and mon -orchid is a major fault in the ring and a genetic flaw, it is no better than dogs that produce blindness or hip dysplasia. 25% of all litters born to dogs with this problem have the same problem. Dogs with this disorder have a much higher risk of cancer and should be spayed, neutered and removed from the breeding program of any responsible breder.Not an arguement just a deep discussion no hard feelings here. just a difference of opinion thats all. and as far as showing dogs i don't show dogs i raise game dogs the real thing not show dogs. My wife was invited to judge dog shows by the adba.Just to clear that up. It's been a pleasure disscussing this with you. Thank you for your input. yours truly tom9783.

[GAPITS]

So just for discussion purposes are you saying that those of us that show our dogs can't possibly have real game dogs? I can assure that is not true, there are many game dog people out there that have recently gotten more involved in this aspect of the dogs so that we are better able to help fight the BSL and other laws our governments (local and federal) are trying to impose. IMO it is a very smart move on the part of these people. Things that are hidden are usually exposed, by bringing the dogs to the general population we can dispell the myths that media is imposing on us. Like I said just for discussion everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is what makes the world go round. :)

[tom9783]

No that is not what i'm saying, I know many old timers like myself who have shown there dogs at shows. Some very game dogs young folks of today do not test what they breed and breed for no more than money. that too is a fact. Gameness is not an agressive dog gameness is proven by those who would test there dog in the real sence. If you know what i mean. Preety pedigrees and bloodlines do not make game dogs! (rom) can be manipulated so can (por) real dog men test all the stock used for breeding. If you don't your part of the problem of putting common dogs out for people who want pets not pits. There is a saying the dog makes the ped not the other way around. Breed what you want this is america, but don't say it's game if you don't know. I've been in this longer than most of you have been alive, and i've seen it all. I also know joanie from tatonka that is where you get your dogs from right? You should try Berts dogs. My opinion only and this is for discussion only, No offence ment to anyone. I'm old i do tend to ramble a bit. Live well, love well and be happy. Thank you for the discussion Tom.

[GAPITS]

I always appreciate a good discussion, :). Thanks for your input and I do agree with the majority of what you have stated. I stand behind every dog on my yard and will do so into the future, we have tried BS stock and were very unhappy with the results (maybe just luck of the draw as they say). A good dog is where you find it and what you choose to make of it, many a good dog has been ruined in the hands of the wrong people. Be glad to have a good discussion with you anytime, it is quite re-freshing to find someone that can actually discuss things in a knowledgable manner these days.

[pittfallin]

In some of the clubs I show through a hand-on exam is required, so my guys are used to being petted, examined etc. But I have problems w/ some of my dogs jumping sky-high & scaring the tar out of the judge when he checks their jewels & some of my gyps will sit down when he tries run his hands down their back legs. Now if I do it, they're fine, no reaction. But if a stranger does it the male invariably jumps & looks around like "hey!" & the gyp sits down. I know handling by strangers would help, but i've found not many ppl are willing to rub down a strange dog let alone walk up to a strange male dog & handle his coullions! I guess what I'm saying is good help is hard to come by. lol. Anyone got any advice for overcoming this??i kinda had that problem too but what i do is when the judge is around instead of stepping back all the way i willl keep my leg on her, that way she knows im still there watching her...

[pittfallin]

It really is not that hard to tell if the dog has 1 testicle or no testicles showing. and has no bearing on weather it can breed or not. Thats the only reason i can imagine they would check at all. Which i have never seen happen at any show in the U.S.A. and as far as it being a flaw well theres more flawed dogs making champion than you would suspect in the adba. Overbites, uderbites, 90% of all judges for the adba don't have a clue what they are looking for thats a fact. They judge for the club that brought them there and give awards accordingly.amen to that...

[tom9783]

I always appreciate a good discussion, :). Thanks for your input and I do agree with the majority of what you have stated. I stand behind every dog on my yard and will do so into the future, we have tried BS stock and were very unhappy with the results (maybe just luck of the draw as they say). A good dog is where you find it and what you choose to make of it, many a good dog has been ruined in the hands of the wrong people. Be glad to have a good discussion with you anytime, it is quite re-freshing to find someone that can actually discuss things in a knowledgable manner these days.it was my pleasure and thank you.

[Attila]

What kind of pit bull dog show do you go to where they touch the dogs nuts? That must be ukc shows, adba, aadr shows don't do that. I've been to hundreds of these shows and i have never seen that. lmao.:D
I know I shouldn't laugh at that one but it tickled me. Too funny. Some judges do that some don't.

I suggest that you expose your dogs to more handling if they are having issues with being handled. About all you can do other than handling your dogs more yourself while at home. Go to more shows and let them get used to it. As adult dogs it is harder to overcome. But when they are pups you should handle them as often as possible. I don't fondle my dogs genticals either and mine may do the same thing if someone was doing so to them. I don't know. They seem to be fine with the vet so I assume they will be fine with a judge doing such. As odd as I may find it to do so in a ring. Other than looking to see that they are intact I don't see where me touching them would confirm any more than what is visable. This issue is one other reason for rubbing a dog down before and after work outs and during interaction with the dog. One doesn't have to handle the dogs genticals to do that but if you rub the dog down often enough it is used to being touched.

I don't know what else to say.

[ABK]

Thanks for the input guys! :D

Attila: I thought my guys would be OK w/ being touched, as I gave them rub downs quite often while practicing stacking. I would open the mouth, look at the teeth, grab the jewels & they were totally cool w/ it - as long as it's me. But if it's someone else, they react totally differently. No aggression, the male just jumps a mile high & scares the judge half to death. The female meanwhile just sits down. Either way, as a result, we usually don't place well b/c the judges want a dog that stands stock still during examination.

As for what club I was at, it was a CKC show. Yes, I know ... I know ... a lot of you think CKC is a stone's throw away from being the spawn of the devil. But we do not have an AADR club anywhere near us & we only just recently got an ADBA club & they have yet to hold a show. However we have been having CKC shows in our area for several years. I enjoy shows & go to any show in my area - ADBA, AADR or CKC. None of my current dogs are UKC.

Sadly, the CKC format is like the UKC one, save for the dress code. You don't have to dress to the 9s, but you can expects a FULL hands-on exam from the judge on your dog.

[bahamutt99]

Do they allow you bait in the ring? Have you tried standing by his head, holding firmly and holding a piece of food inside your fist right in front of his nose? Do you think that would sufficiently distract him? (I didn't read any of the replies, so I don't know if this has been suggested already.)

[ABK]

Do they allow you bait in the ring? Have you tried standing by his head, holding firmly and holding a piece of food inside your fist right in front of his nose? Do you think that would sufficiently distract him? (I didn't read any of the replies, so I don't know if this has been suggested already.)Yes, they allow bait in the ring. I tired it w/ no success. He is perfectly fine until the judge gets to his privates. Maybe I will cut back on dinner the night before & breakfast the morning of next time we go out to make sure he is good & hungry. Perhaps that will help him focus. lol.

[Attila]

Thanks for the input guys! :D

Attila: I thought my guys would be OK w/ being touched, as I gave them rub downs quite often while practicing stacking. I would open the mouth, look at the teeth, grab the jewels & they were totally cool w/ it - as long as it's me. But if it's someone else, they react totally differently. No aggression, the male just jumps a mile high & scares the judge half to death. The female meanwhile just sits down. Either way, as a result, we usually don't place well b/c the judges want a dog that stands stock still during examination.

As for what club I was at, it was a CKC show. Yes, I know ... I know ... a lot of you think CKC is a stone's throw away from being the spawn of the devil. But we do not have an AADR club anywhere near us & we only just recently got an ADBA club & they have yet to hold a show. However we have been having CKC shows in our area for several years. I enjoy shows & go to any show in my area - ADBA, AADR or CKC. None of my current dogs are UKC.

Sadly, the CKC format is like the UKC one, save for the dress code. You don't have to dress to the 9s, but you can expects a FULL hands-on exam from the judge on your dog.
Maybe the judges hands were cold. lol That would make me jump. That and the fact some one was putting their hands on my nads.

[ABK]

Maybe the judges hands were cold. lol That would make me jump. That and the fact some one was putting their hands on my nads.LMAO!!!! That was the same thing Jeff said!! http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy0028.gif

Maybe I should stand back there so he thinks it's me??? lol.

[440rider]

Also crypt and mon -orchid is a major fault in the ring and a genetic flaw, it is no better than dogs that produce blindness or hip dysplasia. 25% of all litters born to dogs with this problem have the same problem. Dogs with this disorder have a much higher risk of cancer and should be spayed, neutered and removed from the breeding program of any responsible breder.


anyone out there have tight bred bolio dogs that have resessed testicles? bolio was monorchid only 1 nut dropped and yes you are correct the ressesed testicle/ testicles do allow for a higher risk of cancer developing. Cryporchidism/mon is often cause but very tight breedings there are crypt dogs horses etc. etc. Is it something frowened upon i guess it all depends on the breeder and if they feel it effects performance.

[rhumble]

if you don't mind i will post here my silly question


i have ukc petbulls, to be honest i hate conformation shows

bonnie is my firs adba dog, and i don't want to boss her arround nor giving lot's of order's, still im interested in participating in adba conformation shows here in europe. it's it compatible to train dog for conformation show and still keep dogs drive? (do i make myself understandable?)
do you have any advises you could give me?
thanks alot

[bahamutt99]

In ADBA shows, the handling is much looser. You aren't required to keep your dog in a stacked position, and yes, they can show drive. Some judges look specifically for it. I've seen dogs stand at a perfect stack the whole time, and I've seen dogs that were in a constant half-circle motion, swinging around the handler to get at the other dogs. The rest of the dogs competing are probably somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. They will bark, or take a swipe at a dog that gets too close, and they aren't generally penalized for it. You should know, though, that the better your dogs are at stacking and gaiting, the easier it will be for the judge to look them over. If I have a dog that is similar in quality to the dog right next to her in the ring, but my dog is acting like a lunatic while the other is standing patiently, the other dog will have the edge just because it is easier for the judge to evaluate.

[ABK]

Bahamutt: I have run into the same situation. I once was at a show where there was an absolutely stunning male competeting against my dog. The other male was lunging & jumping while I had trained my dog to stand for examination. My boy was giving the other dog the stink-eye, but he didn't move out of the stand position. While the other male was a superb dog, we ended up winning out b/c the other dog just couldn't evaluated well b/c it was simply jumping around so much.

rhumble: As for your dog, I would say you most definitely need to "boss" your dog around. Dogs are pack animals & they need a structured social order. If there is no leader (boss) in your household, the dog will assume the position of leader & you're going to have big problems out of your dog down the road. You need to re-enforce your standing as "boss" using daily use of obedience commands as well as the NILIF program. It will not deminish their drive, but it will bring the dog under your control & both of you will have a happier life together.

[rhumble]

thanks a lot for your inputs

[MinorThreat]

"You should know, though, that the better your dogs are at stacking and gaiting, the easier it will be for the judge to look them over. If I have a dog that is similar in quality to the dog right next to her in the ring, but my dog is acting like a lunatic while the other is standing patiently, the other dog will have the edge just because it is easier for the judge to evaluate." (Bahammutt)

I disagree, most judges will view a dog with the pretty stack and patient behavior as a pure show dog and the other that hasnt been obviously trained to behave or stack, the athlete. The judges are used to high driven dogs and can evaluate them just as thorough as the well behaved ones. The well behaved ones will lose most the time if eqaul in standard to the ones showing natural drive that have to be held in a stack by their handlers.

[bahamutt99]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I've had success with my well-trained show dogs, and so have many others. A relative of my dogs is a dual Grand, and she's one of the better-behaved ones. (I've seen her bark and pull, but she's not acting like a flat-out idiot.) Loki's aunt is a UKC Grand who is also now an ADBA CH. I watched her win over a large class of dogs, and she stands still in the ring and just looks at the competition with an air of "I aint scared of you." If a judge can't see your dog's structure, they can't evaluate it. And if the judge is picking on drive alone, then they're not a judge I'd want to show under. They're there to evaluate the whole package. Many of them simply don't.