Dog Fighting Ring Broken Up In Polk County, FL

[miakoda]

Busted: Dog fighting ring broken up in Polk County

Polk County, Florida - Polk County Sheriff's Agricultural Crimes and Animal Control officers are conducting an investigation in Mulberry in reference to dog fighting.

Hewitt Grant, DOB 4/5/67, of 2335 Pump Road in Mulberry has been placed under arrest and so far charged with 1 felony county of Maintaining and Owning Equipment and Dogs for Baiting or Fighting, and 10 counts of misdemeanor Animal Cruelty, after investigation revealed he is using "cat mills" on his property to train dogs to be aggressive.

So far 2 cat mills and 2 cages with the remnants of small animals (one may be a possum, the other is unknown) have been found on the property, and so far 129 dogs have been found, including 17 puppies who appear to be younger than 3 months.

There are at least 10 dogs with scarring and wounds consistent with fighting, pit bull breed. Most of the dogs are pit bull type dogs, but there are other breeds as well. PSCO is serving a search warrant on the property tonight, as well as taking an inventory and photographs of all of the animals.

An on-scene vet is determining which, if any, of the animals are emaciated and/or sick to the point where they need to be taken away tonight for treatment. A deputy sheriff will remain posted on the property tonight until daylight tomorrow, and detectives can continue the investigation.

A cat mill is a contraption where a live animal (such as a cat, possum, raccoon) is placed in a cage just out of reach of a dog that is chained. The dog strains to catch the caged animal.

The purpose of the cat mill is to teach the dog how to be aggressive. Grant is being booked in tonight. As soon as his mug shot is available it will be sent out via media alert and on the website www.polksheriff.org (http://www.polksheriff.org/) under Breaking News.


WTSP Assignment Desk
http://www.tampabays10.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=24477

[sajoseph]

I know, can you beleive it? I hear through the grapevine(Polk co is in my backyard so to speak, it is close) that this place he owned was actually passed as a "kennel" so to speak. I bet I can name every county kennel in Florida, and have also spoken to them in the past 2 or s oyears. I always hear when a new kennel opens, a breeding occurs, etc. I want to find out the name of this kennel, if it was indeed one. There were 17 puppies there. What a damn shame.


On the other note, Humane Sociey has called me asking if I can volunteer walking and assisting w/ training on the ones they confiscate. I want to and feel obligated to the breed to do it, but I have this thing gnawing at me, they aren't taking all the dogs. They are leaving a good bit of them-WHY?? I mean, if they are going to continue to let him own ANY of them, that is wrong!
But I will help out the pitbulls, and enjoy doing it. I only wish I could keep them all. Maybe his property will go into forclosure, I can buy it cheap, then I will keep them all. My "pitbull haven" I have always wanted to have!!!

[rocksteady]

OK.. lets look at "facts" here. The news article is talking about cat mills being used to train the dogs to be aggressive. That is 100% not so. Cat mills are used to condition a dog..like a treadmill. In order to hunt hogs or even show in conformation, your dog needs to be in tip top shape. Check out Richard strattons books.. one has a dog working a cat mill with nothing more than a plastic bottle (i believe thats what is is) in the cage. So how can a dog become aggressive with a plastic bottle? yes, at one time when cat mills were big, they used a small animal to do nothing more that to entice the dog into running. the dog cant even catch the small animal..

On another note, I was watching a show on squirrel hunting last night. they were using a champion mountian cur dog to hunt with. That dog (little as it was) was condtioned down like you would see in the apbt show rings. It wasnt fat,.. It was condtioned with visiable ribs, tuck ..

[boa1277]

Again a reporter who has his head up his butt. This type of mill is used for conditioning not to teach a dog to be aggressive, c'mon now our dogs are breed agressive without trying to bait them. Why jump to conclusions here regarding this guys operation last time I checked you are innocent until proven guilty. What I want to know is how were the dogs I bet you good money they were all current on vaccinations and they all were well taken care of, that is what you should really be concerned with, I have to say it most sporting men take way better care of their animals than 90% of the average owner anyday...what we should really do is write letters to the paper and explain what those mills are really used for, also this story is going to be alot different if they end up putting those dogs down, including the puppies, which they will do if it is determined that he was breeding fighting dogs, if you dont believe me just ask the Floyd Bordeaux family.......Oh yeah guess what if you happen to own one of his dogs and they will follow the registration process they will automaticaly assume you are fighting your dogs also, so be carefull here...

[boa1277]

Ok I just went to the News website and watched all the current video on this guy and it sure looks like he was the piece of crap the painted him to be the dogs they had on the news were in horrible condition way to skinny and I guess he had over 130 dogs on property how can you take care of that many animals correctly, well this is really sad hopefully some of these dogs can be saved.....

[realonebulldog]

But I will help out the pitbulls, and enjoy doing it. I only wish I could keep them all. Maybe his property will go into forclosure, I can buy it cheap, then I will keep them all. My "pitbull haven" I have always wanted to have!!![/QUOTE]You will keep 50 80 or more pitbulls? H O W ? Do you know how much they eat and shit in only one week? L O L... but its a sad story...they use small animals as bait or what? And they cross other dogs with Bulldogs (Pitbulls)? What kind of Superidiots they are? E X A C T L Y this kind of person are the ones who kill our freedom....

[sajoseph]

Way too skinyy is a major understatement. These dogs were anorexic. There were a few who couldn't even stand anymore. And the "cat mills" were used to teach the dog aggressivness. The cat was sat in a cage at the end of the dogs rope. There was no way the dog could have "chased" it, it was sat there, at the end of the chain to tease and torment the dog. My in laws trained greyhounds for racing, and cats and rabbite were used to train to run, this was different.

This guy is a huge piece of garbage. He is totally in the wrong, and there is no justification WHAT SO EVER in ANYTHING WHAT SO EVER at his property. The mission was clear from the scarring and aggressivness of what he was doing. There was a tip to the police, someone who gave facts as to the dog fighting training and raising.

This guys needs to be tied up and let be attacked by a pack of dogs,what he did is inhumane and so should his punishment be.

[realonebulldog]

Again a reporter who has his head up his butt. This type of mill is used for conditioning not to teach a dog to be aggressive, c'mon now our dogs are breed agressive without trying to bait them. Why jump to conclusions here regarding this guys operation last time I checked you are innocent until proven guilty. What I want to know is how were the dogs I bet you good money they were all current on vaccinations and they all were well taken care of, that is what you should really be concerned with, I have to say it most sporting men take way better care of their animals than 90% of the average owner anyday...what we should really do is write letters to the paper and explain what those mills are really used for, also this story is going to be alot different if they end up putting those dogs down, including the puppies, which they will do if it is determined that he was breeding fighting dogs, if you dont believe me just ask the Floyd Bordeaux family.......Oh yeah guess what if you happen to own one of his dogs and they will follow the registration process they will automaticaly assume you are fighting your dogs also, so be carefull here... The thing with Floyd is another colored horse...he is a jewel as a dogmen he would not in hell cross some other stuff (Pressas or what ever) into his nobel dogs! Think whe have simply to face that even some punks try to bred with ouer dogs...sad enough

[14rock]

And the "cat mills" were used to teach the dog aggressivness. The cat was sat in a cage at the end of the dogs rope. There was no way the dog could have "chased" it, it was sat there, at the end of the chain to tease and torment the dog. My in laws trained greyhounds for racing, and cats and rabbite were used to train to run, this was different.

How is it diffrent?! Both are being lured to excersise. Because the latter deals with greyhounds and the HS hasnt targeted them yet. Its o'k for other breeds to use treadmills, catmills, etc but when a APBT does it its instant "fighting dog". I'll be sure and tell the Amstaff show breeders with catmills that they are dog fighters,and you said so-so thats proof enough.

This guy is a huge piece of garbage. He is totally in the wrong, and there is no justification WHAT SO EVER in ANYTHING WHAT SO EVER at his property. The mission was clear from the scarring and aggressivness of what he was doing. There was a tip to the police, someone who gave facts as to the dog fighting training and raising.

Is your mom Laura Maloney or where are you coming up with these brain-washed ideas from?! No justification to owning dogs and a cat mill huh? I was going to build one this summer, so I'm a dog fighter right? He had 130 dogs-10 had scars. I guess yard accidents dont happen anymore :rolleyes:. Aggressive-For petes sake they are APBT they come from a long line of fighting dogs, what do you expect?! So by your theory of a tip "proves" it-if me and my gf get in a fight tonight I could call up the cops on my girlfriend right now and give "facts as to the dog-fighting" because they wont be able to prove it. Since someone called in a complaint thats automatic proof now? Whats your local PD phone number....lets see how well this works when the tables are turned!
This guys needs to be tied up and let be attacked by a pack of dogs,what he did is inhumane and so should his punishment be.
Perfect example of a crazy ARA right above. "Innocent until proven guilty" no longer applies huh?


You are one sick puppy. "Maybe his property will go into forclosure, I can buy it cheap, then I will keep them all. My "pitbull haven" I have always wanted to have!!!"

You and your agenda disgust me. Hoping this man looses his life and also his property so you can "buy it cheap" and have your own PETAland. Wishing death upon a man not yet proven guilty......who is it that has the real problems?!

[Stillwater]

You are one sick puppy. "Maybe his property will go into forclosure, I can buy it cheap, then I will keep them all. My "pitbull haven" I have always wanted to have!!!"

You and your agenda disgust me. Hoping this man looses his life and also his property so you can "buy it cheap" and have your own PETAland. Wishing death upon a man not yet proven guilty......who is it that has the real problems?!
14Rock,I agree 100%

[sajoseph]

You are one sick puppy. "Maybe his property will go into forclosure, I can buy it cheap, then I will keep them all. My "pitbull haven" I have always wanted to have!!!"

You and your agenda disgust me. Hoping this man looses his life and also his property so you can "buy it cheap" and have your own PETAland. Wishing death upon a man not yet proven guilty......who is it that has the real problems?!
Are you crazy?? Have you been reading what he has done? Have you researched the story?? Have you seen the video? Have you even been listening?? I live HERE. I went out there when the news broke. Did you watch the aerial view from the helecopter of his property? The kennels in bad shape lined up. 4x4 cages w/ 2 or 3 adult dogs squished together, cats in cages at the end of the dogs chains,the starving dogs that cannot even stand, the dogs with scars and HUMAN aggressivness. WTF are you talking about-PETAland?? Dude, you must be nuts! I would keep them all to save their lives and give them a chance to live like they are supposed to. The land is huge, the fun they would have roaming. Man, you must be one of those people who take a post and twist it just to stir up some drama, you little, little person!!!LOL!

[realonebulldog]

You are one sick puppy. "Maybe his property will go into forclosure, I can buy it cheap, then I will keep them all. My "pitbull haven" I have always wanted to have!!!"

You and your agenda disgust me. Hoping this man looses his life and also his property so you can "buy it cheap" and have your own PETAland. Wishing death upon a man not yet proven guilty......who is it that has the real problems?!Do you sure that he is 100% inocent?I mean iam not against dogfighting but this thing with little animals and then the other breds on his yard...sounds strange or? I belive that Floyd was inocent (in my eyes) BUT in this case i dont know...on the other hand...koruption is strong in the land of the free...lol

[sajoseph]

Is your mom Laura Maloney or where are you coming up with these brain-washed ideas from?! No justification to owning dogs and a cat mill huh? I was going to build one this summer, so I'm a dog fighter right? He had 130 dogs-10 had scars. I guess yard accidents dont happen anymore :rolleyes:. Aggressive-For petes sake they are APBT they come from a long line of fighting dogs, what do you expect?! So by your theory of a tip "proves" it-if me and my gf get in a fight tonight I could call up the cops on my girlfriend right now and give "facts as to the dog-fighting" because they wont be able to prove it. Since someone called in a complaint thats automatic proof now? Whats your local PD phone number....lets see how well this works when the tables are turned!
This guys needs to be tied up and let be attacked by a pack of dogs,what he did is inhumane and so should his punishment be.
Perfect example of a crazy ARA right above. "Innocent until proven guilty" no longer applies huh?

I cannot beleive you guys think he might be innocent! Really...you say you love the breed, you'd stand up for it, maybe it is because you are not here to see it all. If you were, you'd see it differently. My dogs are my kids, I could not ever imagine someone treating them like this. I beleive in innocent until proven guilty, but this guy has been proven guilty by the evidence.I never said one should not own a kennel, breeding, etc. Go for it if it is what you want, but you'd better not starve them or fight them.You watch, tomorrow you will see the pics they release of the fighting rings-two(2) in the barn.

Why must people turn every single post into an argument? You feel superior or something? Geez, chillax.

[realonebulldog]

[QUOTE=sajoseph]I never said one should not own a kennel, breeding, etc. Go for it if it is what you want, but you'd better not starve them or fight them. You mean that serious? GO for it but without game testing? L O L Wait a moment, you say : Bred a game bred dogbred without game testing...Hmmmm have i to understand it ...? Yes i think its Petaland...lol

[sajoseph]

THIS ISN'T ABUSE?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/sajoseph/lgdog.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/sajoseph/0127dog.jpgCourtesy of ABC action news, www.baynewsnine.com (http://www.baynewsnine.com) and the Humane Soiety.


If this guy is innocant, how do you explain these pics??

[sajoseph]

Bred a game bred dogbred without game testing...Hmmmm have i to understand it ...?

WHAT?

[rocksteady]

innocent untill PROVEN guilty by a court of law and peers. Just like everyone "knew" OJ was guilty ...ya, guess who's laughing now ..

The problem is sajoseph is that more than half the time these news stories "Break" the media jumps to conclusions and everyone involved is "guilty of this this and this" before even being proven wrong. Do you watch animal planet? funny becuase alot of times when animals are in bad shape or needing help, they give the owner a WARNING and give them so many days to fix the problems, get vet care, etc. Even with Animal Horders they give them time to find homes, clean up stuff. So how is this guy any diffrerent? Why shouldnt he be given the same treatment.. hey. you go XX days to get these dogs to the vet, clean up kennels etc. But seeing as its pit bulls and theres cat mills, nope.

maybe this guy is scum of the earth. maybe he fell by hard times. Who knows. Its not up to us to judge him unless you are sitting on the jury during his court case hearing both sides of the story. thats the problem nowadays.. no one gets their due process.

[realonebulldog]

Bred a game bred dogbred without game testing...Hmmmm have i to understand it ...?

WHAT?First...this Pictures are H O R R I B L E.......... you think its better to bred Bulldogs without gametesting?

[sajoseph]

innocent untill PROVEN guilty by a court of law and peers. Just like everyone "knew" OJ was guilty ...ya, guess who's laughing now ..

The problem is sajoseph is that more than half the time these news stories "Break" the media jumps to conclusions and everyone involved is "guilty of this this and this" before even being proven wrong. Do you watch animal planet? funny becuase alot of times when animals are in bad shape or needing help, they give the owner a WARNING and give them so many days to fix the problems, get vet care, etc. Even with Animal Horders they give them time to find homes, clean up stuff. So how is this guy any diffrerent? Why shouldnt he be given the same treatment.. hey. you go XX days to get these dogs to the vet, clean up kennels etc. But seeing as its pit bulls and theres cat mills, nope.

maybe this guy is scum of the earth. maybe he fell by hard times. Who knows. Its not up to us to judge him unless you are sitting on the jury during his court case hearing both sides of the story. thats the problem nowadays.. no one gets their due process.
I understand what you are saying.But I guess it is different, just being out there and seeing what I saw. I honestly believe that what I saw was everything bad. I mean real bad. These 2 pics aren't the only two, it is bad. I am heading to the Human Society in a couple of hours to see more first hand. It is just so hard, to see them tore up and starved like they are. See, this county along with Myakka county has had rumors for 20 years about dog fighting. No one sells a pitbull to anyone in these 2 counties because the rumors are so strong. I don't know, it just makes sense that this is all too real and horrible. Yes, let the judge decide, but justice is not always right.

[sajoseph]

First...this Pictures are H O R R I B L E.......... you think its better to bred Bulldogs without gametesting?

I do not beleive bulldogs should be bred w/out testing period. Whether it be for gameness(Hog catching, hunting, etc) or working(temperment, ppt,etc) or show, OR health testing. I was just saying, people are gonna breed if they want to, being behind a computer and running mouths is not gonna deter them, we can only give advice, testing SHOULD be done, yes, but doesn't always happen. People are just that way. But it should never be done for fighting or just to abuse them.

[sajoseph]

Oh, and notice I said "hog catching" the catch and hold process as it is supossed to be, not killing. So please do not twist it again! And definatly not hog fighting.

[realonebulldog]

Oh, and notice I said "hog catching" the catch and hold process as it is supossed to be, not killing. So please do not twist it again! And definatly not hog fighting.Of course not hogfightin...never..no i mean dogfighting...lol..just jokin..

[sajoseph]

Of course not hogfightin...never..no i mean dogfighting...lol..just jokin..wwwwwwwweeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllll...sometimes people take things out of context........just by accident I'm sure!

[Stillwater]

I tend to think that the dogs weren't treated right, but the part that I don't understand is how you want to buy his land cheap at forecloser and turn it into your own dog haven.

Its people like you that support this vicious circle of HSUS and Peta's abuse of power.

"A Friend of my enemy, is MY enemy"

[sajoseph]

I tend to think that the dogs weren't treated right, but the part that I don't understand is how you want to buy his land cheap at forecloser and turn it into your own dog haven.

Its people like you that support this vicious circle of HSUS and Peta's abuse of power.

"A Friend of my enemy, is MY enemy"

What do you mean...really, I am having trouble understanding what you are talking about? I want to save the breed. I love the breed. I have always had the breed. There is something wrong with giving all these dogs a place to live with enough room to roam and live happy??With proper care and attention?? I'd do it. I'd have them all spayed/nutered, make sure the entire property was fenced, and we'd have a blast. It would be a safe haven.


I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THIS WOULD BE A BAD THING.????.

[realonebulldog]

I tend to think that the dogs weren't treated right, but the part that I don't understand is how you want to buy his land cheap at forecloser and turn it into your own dog haven.

Its people like you that support this vicious circle of HSUS and Peta's abuse of power.

"A Friend of my enemy, is MY enemy" Dogheaven...that says all....gretings from Walt Disney...lol...but serious i think josua tried only to help and he feels sad for the dogs...me to..

[14rock]

Sajoesph-no I didnt watch the video (I couldnt find it) and no I hadn't seen any pictures of the abuse from this case until you posted some. Those examples are rather disgusting, but what is to say these dogs didnt have an underlying medical problem? I will give everyone the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong because I have been on the wrong side of "guilty until proven innocent" more times than I care to talk about. I know for a fact how the media can take things, sensationalize things, and straight up lie without any reprocussions. So you seen these things with your own two eyes? They let you tour a crime scene and further assume this man was guilty first and foremost and was stripping him of his rights. The public has no valid reason to be allowed onto a crime scene no matter what the crime is. This guy might be as guilty as they say he is. He might be the scum of the Earth and a terrible person. But you know what.....I will not take the medias word as the gospel truth, and I especially wont convict someone on dog fighting by owning APBT's and a catmill!

[sajoseph]

Sajoesph-no I didnt watch the video (I couldnt find it) and no I hadn't seen any pictures of the abuse from this case until you posted some. Those examples are rather disgusting, but what is to say these dogs didnt have an underlying medical problem? I will give everyone the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong because I have been on the wrong side of "guilty until proven innocent" more times than I care to talk about. I know for a fact how the media can take things, sensationalize things, and straight up lie without any reprocussions. So you seen these things with your own two eyes? They let you tour a crime scene and further assume this man was guilty first and foremost and was stripping him of his rights. The public has no valid reason to be allowed onto a crime scene no matter what the crime is. This guy might be as guilty as they say he is. He might be the scum of the Earth and a terrible person. But you know what.....I will not take the medias word as the gospel truth, and I especially wont convict someone on dog fighting by owning APBT's and a catmill!
Sorry to hear you have had some rough times. No, I wasn't allowed into a crime scene. It was not like that. Not like a murder investigation, the property is open, besides the trees. You can park, get out and move a branch and see things. There is no way to really quarantine it off to watchful eyes without building walls. The helecopter views on tv, and the dogs being taken out were easily seen.

We will all be waiting to find out what has really happened. I am heading to the Humane Society now, they need volunteers w/ the overwhelming # of dogs there due to this. I will help.

Hope all is ok now w/ your experiences.

I'll let you know how these dogs are tomorrow. Poor things, I wish I could take some!

[Stillwater]

Sorry to hear you have had some rough times. No, I wasn't allowed into a crime scene. It was not like that. Not like a murder investigation, the property is open, besides the trees. You can park, get out and move a branch and see things. There is no way to really quarantine it off to watchful eyes without building walls. The helecopter views on tv, and the dogs being taken out were easily seen.

We will all be waiting to find out what has really happened. I am heading to the Humane Society now, they need volunteers w/ the overwhelming # of dogs there due to this. I will help.

Hope all is ok now w/ your experiences.

I'll let you know how these dogs are tomorrow. Poor things, I wish I could take some!

Why does the HSUS need volunteers when they make MILLIONS of dollars a year.Seems they could take the money they get from donations and feed every fuckin animal on the planet, but its really not about helping animals for them, its about generating publicity in order to generate more donations.


Like I said, A friend of my enemy is MY enemy.

[SAM_I_AM]

Great this clowns dogs are gonna get taken away for treatment but in Mr. Floyd's case in which his dogs were healthy they didnt get a chance. Isn't that just amazing!!!

[realonebulldog]

Great this clowns dogs are gonna get taken away for treatment but in Mr. Floyd's case in which his dogs were healthy they didnt get a chance. Isn't that just amazing!!! E X A C T...what happened to Mr. Floyd realy grabs my heart....to say it was not fair is by far not enough...it was unbelivable!

[CB]

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2006/1/26/141069.html

Mugshot right there.

[SAM_I_AM]

Well that mug shot explaines alot. Prob not his first time.

[CB]

Does anybody have the videos that this person is talking about? And to the person that lives in florida and "helping" out if you think your going to get some of these dogs and let them roam around with eachother you have another thing coming for you.

[B-I-Z]

Well that mug shot explaines alot. Prob not his first time.
because he's black? :rolleyes:

[sajoseph]

Does anybody have the videos that this person is talking about? And to the person that lives in florida and "helping" out if you think your going to get some of these dogs and let them roam around with eachother you have another thing coming for you.
The only thing I am capable of doing is walking them daily, not bringing them home with me.

The HS told me to come back sfter 6pm.m(closing) to help. I didn't see them all yet. But i have seen a few.

[CB]

The only thing I am capable of doing is walking them daily, not bringing them home with me.

The HS told me to come back sfter 6pm.m(closing) to help. I didn't see them all yet. But i have seen a few.Well can you please link us to the videos that you have seen.

[SAM_I_AM]

NO, Why does some idiot always have to play the race card. Its cause he looks like a damn crackhead and can't take care of himself much less any type of animal.

[catcher T]

I would rather someone shoot all their dogs between the eyes then to starve them,,it takes one time to see a dog so emanciated it can't stand up for the image to never leave your mind,,starvation is very cruel to do to anything.

[sajoseph]

Well can you please link us to the videos that you have seen.
I have seen the video on tv, and I was there locally. Somebody else posted earlier that they have watched the video and that the whole thing did look bad.

I will try and find a video for you guys to watch. I have the link to the abc news site at work, but I am not at work right now, I will do a search.

[sajoseph]

Here is a link to the story:http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2006/01/060127dogs.shtml

Dont see any video yet.

[sajoseph]

I just watched the update to this. The guy was charged w/ so many felonies.

I cried, they showed every little puppy, estimated to be 12 weeks old, and each puppy had a 2 inch chain around its neck. Only a few could hold their heads up to look at the camera, and that was barely. The conditions are horrible, the dog houses are rotten, the dogs were starved, and although human friendly, they were trying to attack each other constantly.

If this guy wasn't a "dog fighter" he was definatly a sick freak who liked to abuse the dogs. There is no evidence of any hardship that would have forced this problem. There were whips even lined up by the fence and evidence he used them on the dogs(blood and hair) I dont know. I tried to keep an open mind about this guy as people here have told me accidents happen, but this is beyond UNREAL!

[CB]

I just watched the update to this. The guy was charged w/ so many felonies.

I cried, they showed every little puppy, estimated to be 12 weeks old, and each puppy had a 2 inch chain around its neck. Only a few could hold their heads up to look at the camera, and that was barely. The conditions are horrible, the dog houses are rotten, the dogs were starved, and although human friendly, they were trying to attack each other constantly.

If this guy wasn't a "dog fighter" he was definatly a sick freak who liked to abuse the dogs. There is no evidence of any hardship that would have forced this problem. There were whips even lined up by the fence and evidence he used them on the dogs(blood and hair) I dont know. I tried to keep an open mind about this guy as people here have told me accidents happen, but this is beyond UNREAL!Does your news not put videos up on there site when they show the news. I know alot of other news does i would just like to see this with my 2 eyes.

[sajoseph]

Yes, usually they do, that is what I was looking for.

This is the only thing there so far. I imagine after it calms down, it will be a video, they need time to make it or something!


Authorities in Polk County found more than 130 dogs in deplorable conditions. They say most are pit bulls used for fighting. Deputies discovered the training ground for the operation in an area of Polk County called Nichols, just west of Mulberry. They call it a giant dog mill and training ground. It was a horrific find. Some dogs were found in wooden kennels, others staked to chains. They said, "Conditions are deplorable no water, no food." Many of dogs are so malnourished, sick and deformed that they will have to be euthanized. Deputies say Hewitt Grant is responsible. They arrested him on animal cruelty charges and for owning equipment used for dog fighting. Some dogs have tear marks and fur missing off their arms and faces. The investigation started in December when an anonymous tip led deputies to the property where Grant lived in a mobile home. A horrible scene hidden behind a wooden fence that neighbors say they couldn't believe despite all the barking. They said, "It's kind of shocking just to have so may dogs like that, just fighting them." Thirteen dogs will be euthanized immediately and the judge will have a hearing in a month. That's when he will decide whether the other dogs can be adopted.

[jadedpitgirl]

The investigation started in December when an anonymous tip led deputies to the property

Like someone else on this board said, it's time to "Close The Circle".....

[apbtluver]

You are one sick puppy. "Maybe his property will go into forclosure, I can buy it cheap, then I will keep them all. My "pitbull haven" I have always wanted to have!!!"

You and your agenda disgust me. Hoping this man looses his life and also his property so you can "buy it cheap" and have your own PETAland. Wishing death upon a man not yet proven guilty......who is it that has the real problems?!
14 Rock, I agree but you have to remember, you are talking to a girl that is expecting pups from a female pup and is advertising them for sale on line.

[apbtluver]

I do not beleive bulldogs should be bred w/out testing period. Whether it be for gameness(Hog catching, hunting, etc) or working(temperment, ppt,etc) or show, OR health testing. I was just saying, people are gonna breed if they want to, being behind a computer and running mouths is not gonna deter them, we can only give advice, testing SHOULD be done, yes, but doesn't always happen. People are just that way. But it should never be done for fighting or just to abuse them.
What about your female that is pregnant?

[apbtluver]

Yes, usually they do, that is what I was looking for.

This is the only thing there so far. I imagine after it calms down, it will be a video, they need time to make it or something!


Authorities in Polk County found more than 130 dogs in deplorable conditions. They say most are pit bulls used for fighting. Deputies discovered the training ground for the operation in an area of Polk County called Nichols, just west of Mulberry. They call it a giant dog mill and training ground. It was a horrific find. Some dogs were found in wooden kennels, others staked to chains. They said, "Conditions are deplorable no water, no food." Many of dogs are so malnourished, sick and deformed that they will have to be euthanized. Deputies say Hewitt Grant is responsible. They arrested him on animal cruelty charges and for owning equipment used for dog fighting. Some dogs have tear marks and fur missing off their arms and faces. The investigation started in December when an anonymous tip led deputies to the property where Grant lived in a mobile home. A horrible scene hidden behind a wooden fence that neighbors say they couldn't believe despite all the barking. They said, "It's kind of shocking just to have so may dogs like that, just fighting them." Thirteen dogs will be euthanized immediately and the judge will have a hearing in a month. That's when he will decide whether the other dogs can be adopted.
What is the news station?

[simms]

Are you crazy?? Have you been reading what he has done? Have you researched the story?? Have you seen the video? Have you even been listening?? I live HERE. I went out there when the news broke. Did you watch the aerial view from the helecopter of his property? The kennels in bad shape lined up. 4x4 cages w/ 2 or 3 adult dogs squished together, cats in cages at the end of the dogs chains,the starving dogs that cannot even stand, the dogs with scars and HUMAN aggressivness. WTF are you talking about-PETAland?? Dude, you must be nuts! I would keep them all to save their lives and give them a chance to live like they are supposed to. The land is huge, the fun they would have roaming. Man, you must be one of those people who take a post and twist it just to stir up some drama, you little, little person!!!LOL!

BTW,
A ginny is used for conditioning. Now if you had any viable experience with conditioning you would know.....theres not much difference in conditioning a working Greyhound with that of a working APBT.

Easy with your Idea's of what this guy's punishment should be....Your lack of knowledge could land you in the same position, I mean sounds to me as you would turn em loose to roam.

You would end up with a yard that was shit recked...and be charged just the same....pull your feel good head out of your ass!!!

These dog's are most likely not the type of animal for you.

[sajoseph]

BTW,
A ginny is used for conditioning. Now if you had any viable experience with conditioning you would know.....theres not much difference in conditioning a working Greyhound with that of a working APBT.

Easy with your Idea's of what this guy's punishment should be....Your lack of knowledge could land you in the same position, I mean sounds to me as you would turn em loose to roam.

You would end up with a yard that was shit recked...and be charged just the same....pull your feel good head out of your ass!!!

These dog's are most likely not the type of animal for you.
My head out of my ass?? So I am dreaming of saving all the pitbulls from a brutal being. I am wrong? If I could I would. I cannot buy his land and make a safe haven for the pitbull, but it is a dream.

Some of you people get angry for not being so against bad deeds, then you get angry for being to close minded regarding the deeds. What is the deal?

[boa1277]

Go figure this guy will probably get off, and all his animals will be saved, when you compare this to what happened to Floyd Bardeaux it makes me sick to my stomach, you have a true dogman whom took care of his dogs, and bred for the right reasons, but some chump from Homeland Security, or PETA, or Humane Society felt they need to die and a great line of dogs were destroyed, now he is having to defend himself in a court of law, this is what is wrong with our countrys system, when you give jerks a little taste of power they go and screw up royally. Everyone should really research what happend to Floyd, and write a letter or send E-Mail lets give this guy all the support we can and show the a s s holes we can unite also.

[CB]

ALright here is the new video and i have to say is that alot of the dogs look healthy but having a 12-15 pound chain on a puppy that isnt even 12 weeks old and is 9 pounds is crazy and in my book abuse. But the yard did look good and the dogs had shelter but just the puppy thing gets to me. They said they will euthanize all the adult dogs and see how the pups act around other dogs. If you cant veiw the video because you dont have real player there is a link to where you can download it for free.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2006/01/060127dogs.shtml

Link to download real player http://www.download.com/RealPlayer/3000-2139_4-10255189.html

[realonebulldog]

Go figure this guy will probably get off, and all his animals will be saved, when you compare this to what happened to Floyd Bardeaux it makes me sick to my stomach, you have a true dogman whom took care of his dogs, and bred for the right reasons, but some chump from Homeland Security, or PETA, or Humane Society felt they need to die and a great line of dogs were destroyed, now he is having to defend himself in a court of law, this is what is wrong with our countrys system, when you give jerks a little taste of power they go and screw up royally. Everyone should really research what happend to Floyd, and write a letter or send E-Mail lets give this guy all the support we can and show the a s s holes we can unite also.Assistant District Attorney Ronnie Dauteride P.O. Box 3306 Lafayete,LA 70502-3306

[realonebulldog]

Assistant District Attorney Ronnie Dauteride P.O. Box 3306 Lafayete,LA 70502-3306 Why there is no chance on this board to give a little money to floyd?

[realonebulldog]

ALright here is the new video and i have to say is that alot of the dogs look healthy but having a 12-15 pound chain on a puppy that isnt even 12 weeks old and is 9 pounds is crazy and in my book abuse. But the yard did look good and the dogs had shelter but just the puppy thing gets to me. They said they will euthanize all the adult dogs and see how the pups act around other dogs. If you cant veiw the video because you dont have real player there is a link to where you can download it for free.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2006/01/060127dogs.shtml

Link to download real player http://www.download.com/RealPlayer/3000-2139_4-10255189.html ...Thatswhy People think that Pitbulls are more dogaggresive than other Dogbreds...the Truth is they are not but it depends on the way they life...if you put say 80 or 100 alaskan malamuts or rottweiler or labradors or whatever dogbred on a chain and let them never come together....and then one day you came along and turn all lose...you know what would happen!

[realonebulldog]

A chain is not a bad thing...but chains like that are simply absolut I D I O T I C. The real problem is you cant take care for 100 or more dogs if you are allone,without personal.Thats imposible,you need every day one hell of money only to feed them properly!The oldtimers like komosinski had only 20- max 30 dogs and believe me thats by far enough for only 1 men to take care for...and the oldtimers did... T H A T S W H Y they are famous..like floyd...but WHAT why have to face IS that the target of this animal right organisations is not to help animals....they only want to make money and the try to put a genozide on ouer beloved, noble breed!
Link to download real player http://www.download.com/RealPlayer/3000-2139_4-10255189.html[/QUOTE]

[14rock]

Realone...first off stop passing off false info about our breed. Whether you like it or not they are dog aggressive and no ammount of "loving it out of them" will work. Some dogs you might get lucky with but if you are dealing in true to standard APBT's chances are 97 % of them will be hopelessly dog-aggressive. Its a shame how many dogs would die a day if people actually listened to your advice!

As for the chain, that is sickening. I havent seen the video yet....link isnt working.

[sajoseph]

Go figure this guy will probably get off, and all his animals will be saved, when you compare this to what happened to Floyd Bardeaux it makes me sick to my stomach, you have a true dogman whom took care of his dogs, and bred for the right reasons, but some chump from Homeland Security, or PETA, or Humane Society felt they need to die and a great line of dogs were destroyed, now he is having to defend himself in a court of law, this is what is wrong with our countrys system, when you give jerks a little taste of power they go and screw up royally. Everyone should really research what happend to Floyd, and write a letter or send E-Mail lets give this guy all the support we can and show the a s s holes we can unite also.

OK, I know this will pry sound real stupid, but I do not know the whole story w/ this Floyd Bardeaux. Can someone make a long story short for me please.

[miakoda]

OK, I know this will pry sound real stupid, but I do not know the whole story w/ this Floyd Bardeaux. Can someone make a long story short for me please.Do a search on the board. His name is "Floyd Boudreaux".

And to realone, you are doing nothing but spreading false information & lies that are only helping to RUIN the dog's image, not help it. If you do not know the facts about the breed, then do not teach.

[sajoseph]

Ahhh...I see now. Has he had his day in court yet?

[realonebulldog]

[QUOTE=14rock]Realone...first off stop passing off false info about our breed. Whether you like it or not they are dog aggressive and no ammount of "loving it out of them" will work. Some dogs you might get lucky with but if you are dealing in true to standard APBT's chances are 97 % of them will be hopelessly dog-aggressive. Its a shame how many dogs would die a day if people actually listened to your advice!
Sorry but i dont agree...and again sorry ,thats my right.

[SEAL]

mia everyone has the right to be ignorant he says all this and then tells us about how his two almost offed each other when he left them out at home one day.

[realonebulldog]

Do a search on the board. His name is "Floyd Boudreaux".

And to realone, you are doing nothing but spreading false information & lies that are only helping to RUIN the dog's image, not help it. If you do not know the facts about the breed, then do not teach. miakoda you are just realy nice but you have to understand that i dont agree with you...or must I ?

[realonebulldog]

mia everyone has the right to be ignorant he says all this and then tells us about how his two almost offed each other when he left them out at home one day. Seal you did good...two dogs get a hold on my ass and now you...well done! And my dogs get each other when i wasnt at home..thats the story..and that happend to nearly every bred...I never sayd turn the bulldogs lose they are so lovely..i dont live in a walt disney movie i know they are able to kill curs with only one hold. BUT if whe talk about extreme dogaggresivenes and someone sayd thats what 97% of all bulldogs are ...well then i simply dont agree because i think its simply unfair to prove that with chaine dogs ...

[14rock]

Everyone has a right to an opinion. When you post wrongful facts that could possibly lead to other peoples dogs being injured is when there is a problem with it. The fact you left your dogs alone while you left shows us enough about your knowledge of the breed. Hopefully, your dogs will be hurt no more because of your ignorance of the breed.

[realonebulldog]

Everyone has a right to an opinion. When you post wrongful facts that could possibly lead to other peoples dogs being injured is when there is a problem with it. The fact you left your dogs alone while you left shows us enough about your knowledge of the breed. Hopefully, your dogs will be hurt no more because of your ignorance of the breed. You are afraid of dogs get hurt in fights?Why? I didnt told them to fight they did it...after all i think the fight is an absolut normal and natural thing. Shit happends...and they are bred to fight or? If you read my postings properly you will see that im the one who sayd put your bulldog on leash, and that this dogs can be a danger to other dogs....i never sayd let them run free...or did I ? But they are not M O R E dogaggresive than for example kaukasen ,rottweiler or dogos....and that 97 % are extrem dogaggresive...sorry if whe dont talk about pure chaindogs or startet fight fools then this is simply wrong..and i belive many people on this board would agree with me...

[SEAL]

well to clarify on realones behalf i dont think he is talking about ALL chained dogs just neglected dogs.

The above statement about dogs on chains however in this Thread i believe to be incorrect. i have seen dogs personally of other breeds that stay chained just out of each others reach and they dont exhibit any agression when one gets off the chain. We had one that would slip the chain and go and chew the others collar off so they could go run around. I have never seen a bulldog do anything like this.

You dont have to agree with anyone but if i tell you the sky is blue and your argueing well um yeah. many of The APBT are to some degree dog agressive and without supervision are more prone to FIGHT another dog. Not nip it and take its bone not growl and chase it off. FIGHT ( try to injure/kill the other animal).

My experience with owning these dogs is limited. I have owned many other breeds of dogs and have yet to see any like the APBT. however i have been around them a good bit and have researched a lot both on and off this site and have found the vast majority of what these people say to be true.

[realonebulldog]

[QUOTE=SEAL]well to clarify on realones behalf i dont think he is talking about ALL chained dogs just neglected dogs.



You dont have to agree with anyone but if i tell you the sky is blue and your argueing well um yeah. Well, Seal the sky isnt realy blue you know?I ts just an illusion...and if you would let some gamedogs together grow up...as a pack..a familie you would see they are not more aggresive than other dogs..or wolves! By far not.I m 25 years in dogs...20 in pitdogs(bulldogs)...i know a little bit about that things.Well fights can happen in souch a pack...and a dog can get killed...the same with wolves! But the behavior from bulldogs is by far not as aggresive as that from wolves or greenland dogs.

[sajoseph]

I think Seal is trying to say(Im pry wrong, but Ill try because he doesn't seem to be getting it) is that bulldogs are known to be aggressive, and can and will get in a fight, and to AVOID such a fight, and to avoid a dog getting killed or injured, they should not be left alone at any time.

I am guilty of this, although my dogs HAVE NEVER gotten into a fight w/ each other, I have lucked out and learned my lesson. I have an old pitbull whom I have never seperated from any other dogs and have never had any problems in her 15 years. BUT, having said this, my Dixie displays aggression towards any animal that she encounters when off my property(ie:walking on a leash). She is great w/ the other 3 dogs in my home, and is great if you bring your dog in my home, but don't let her see them off of the property.(I think it is a protection thing!!) But, I always keep her in a cage if I am not home, and in the room w/ me wherever I go, whether a shower, etc, she comes with me. Just because I have had luck for 15 years w/ dogs not having aggressive behavior, I will not take any chances.Because I know it does exist, and accidents CAN be prevented.

Kinda sum it up??

[tommy3]

[QUOTE=SEAL]well to clarify on realones behalf i dont think he is talking about ALL chained dogs just neglected dogs.



You dont have to agree with anyone but if i tell you the sky is blue and your argueing well um yeah. Well, Seal the sky isnt realy blue you know?I ts just an illusion...and if you would let some gamedogs together grow up...as a pack..a familie you would see they are not more aggresive than other dogs..or wolves! By far not.I m 25 years in dogs...20 in pitdogs(bulldogs)...i know a little bit about that things.Well fights can happen in souch a pack...and a dog can get killed...the same with wolves! But the behavior from bulldogs is by far not as aggresive as that from wolves or greenland dogs.If you have raised "pitdogs" for 20 years and have come to the conclusion that they are no more aggressive than a German Shephard, or even wolves, you have been doing something wrong.
Watch the learning channel and see how wolves show aggression towards each other. They show their teeth, growl, and their hair raises up. All of this is a threat display to avoid actual confrontation. Do some more research, wolves rarely ever kill each other. APBTs on the other hand, 97% of the time do not go into a big threat display. They go straight in for the kill.
Also, if you have had these dogs for 20 years, you would know better than to leave two dogs together unattended. It really sucks to come home and find one of your prized dogs dead because of an accident. Therefore, anyone knowledgable in the breed (or with any common sense) does not leave their dogs in a dangerous situation.
About your comment concerning raising bulldogs together like wolves:
A bulldog is not bred to be a pack animal. APBTs are bred to hate each other. If they were raised in a pack environment, eventually, there would not be much of a pack left. Minor things such as territory issues would not lead into threat displays but into a dead dog. Eventually the pack is wiped out. Think about what you are saying.
...Thatswhy People think that Pitbulls are more dogaggresive than other Dogbreds...the Truth is they are not but it depends on the way they life...if you put say 80 or 100 alaskan malamuts or rottweiler or labradors or whatever dogbred on a chain and let them never come together....and then one day you came along and turn all lose...you know what would happen!Chains DO NOT cause aggression. The fact that these dogs are bred to be aggressive, causes aggression. Are you telling me that you have never seen an aggressive dog that has never been on a chain?
You would think that all of this would be common sense to someone who has been raising "pitdogs" for 20 years.....

[realonebulldog]

[QUOTE=tommy3]If you have raised "pitdogs" for 20 years and have come to the conclusion that they are no more aggressive than a German Shephard, or even wolves, you have been doing something wrong. :) First you have to understand that even if you would you cant bred for aggresivenes.....lol and for sure you cant bred dogs to hate each other.With souch S T U P I D statements you gave PETA idiots the best muni to kill ouer dogs.

If you where right , and all the breeder had for centurys only bred for aggresivenes and that they hate each other (or they had even tried so ...lol) then and only T H E N it where absolut imposible to hold 2 bulldogs or more at the same time...and not in hell would a cold dog exist and not in hell could a game pitdog exist that goes well with other dog(like for example Jimmy Boots)But you are wrong...

And im glad that you try to learn something by watching wolves on TV...but you saw only what i sayd...wolves show much more aggresiv behavior then bulldogs...and what did you think would happen if a strange wolve would come to visit them...RIGHT they would kill him...and if he where a dog they would eat him...how many dogs has your black and ten bulldog allready eaten?

And last not least the chain story....lol...who sayd chains make dogs aggresiv?You know it doesnt depends on the chains...it depends on the fact that this dogs never had the chance to snif at each other...for weeks...month...years...and so it is absolut normal if they try to get at each other...do you try realy to explain me that this has something with the dogbred to do...lol

In fact if you would ask an old time breeder if he breds for aggresivenes or for that his dogs should hate each other...he would smile and say: Son, i dont bred curs, you have a lot to learn.
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[Defend2DaEnd]

realonebulldogs- are you not from the US because your spelling and grammar is very hard to understand?

[realonebulldog]

realonebulldogs- are you not from the US because your spelling and grammar is very hard to understand? from germany...hamburg..but i learn and try...lol

[Crash97]

If the info. in the story is true and not contrived like many media stories, it sounds to me like this guy probably read some PETA and/or Humaniac press releases and did what they told him to do. Every press release I've ever seen from them on dog-fighting has been a how to manual chock full of lies and utter bullshit pertaining to these dogs. Then some idiot reads this crap and thinks...well damn, that must be how it's done, so I'll do it too. But then some idiots don't actually go out and do it, they just pass judgement on others because of these press releases they swallow.

[Home of Cujo]

ALright here is the new video and i have to say is that alot of the dogs look healthy but having a 12-15 pound chain on a puppy that isnt even 12 weeks old and is 9 pounds is crazy and in my book abuse. But the yard did look good and the dogs had shelter but just the puppy thing gets to me. They said they will euthanize all the adult dogs and see how the pups act around other dogs. If you cant veiw the video because you dont have real player there is a link to where you can download it for free.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2006/01/060127dogs.shtml

Link to download real player http://www.download.com/RealPlayer/3000-2139_4-10255189.html
This guy had no business with the dogs or any dogs for that mater, Dogs on proper chain set ups are happy dogs but the chains this guy were using are not right and people that really abuse animals should be dealt with but coming after all pit bull yards because people like this guy, come on. In this case I do agree with punish his deed not the breed. This guy is not the norm of dog men or women.

[14rock]

No, hes not HOC your right. If he really did use those chain setups, then I full-heartedly agree he has no right to own these dogs. However, its not unheard of for HSUS and SPCA's to "make" their own evidence.

[tommy3]

[QUOTE=tommy3]If you have raised "pitdogs" for 20 years and have come to the conclusion that they are no more aggressive than a German Shephard, or even wolves, you have been doing something wrong. :) First you have to understand that even if you would you cant bred for aggresivenes.....lol and for sure you cant bred dogs to hate each other.With souch S T U P I D statements you gave PETA idiots the best muni to kill ouer dogs.

Of course, you would say that if you believe that a border collie or any other breed is as aggressive as an APBT.

If you where right , and all the breeder had for centurys only bred for aggresivenes and that they hate each other (or they had even tried so ...lol) then and only T H E N it where absolut imposible to hold 2 bulldogs or more at the same time...and not in hell would a cold dog exist and not in hell could a game pitdog exist that goes well with other dog(like for example Jimmy Boots)But you are wrong...

It is not safe to put any two bulldogs together at any length of time if you are not watching them. Do you honestly think that Jimmy Boots would have sat there and done nothing if another dog tried to attack him? Come on now. Jimmy Boots may have been ok around other dogs to a certain point. Many dogs know when it is time for business and when it is not. That does not change the fact that the dogs were bred to fight each other and the fact that accidents will happen if you aren't being careful, even if the dogs are usually ok with other dogs. Because, that "usually" will eventually cause a dead dog.

Aggressiveness is not the purpose of the dogs but it comes with the territory. You can't prove a dog game if it is cold.

And im glad that you try to learn something by watching wolves on TV...but you saw only what i sayd...wolves show much more aggresiv behavior then bulldogs...and what did you think would happen if a strange wolve would come to visit them...RIGHT they would kill him...and if he where a dog they would eat him...how many dogs has your black and ten bulldog allready eaten?

My black and tan hasn't eaten any dogs. Your post was concerning dogs that live as packs. Wolves live as packs. APBTs can not live in packs. Do you let your dogs run around together like a pack of wolves? I seriously doubt it. If so, I can't imagine how many accidents that you have a year.
Wolves may sometimes attack other wolves that aren't a part of their pack. The difference is, wolves rarely attack with the intention to kill. They attack to establish dominance. APBTs do not stop at establishing dominance.



And last not least the chain story....lol...who sayd chains make dogs aggresiv?You know it doesnt depends on the chains...it depends on the fact that this dogs never had the chance to snif at each other...for weeks...month...years...and so it is absolut normal if they try to get at each other...do you try realy to explain me that this has something with the dogbred to do...lol

I quoted you directly and you clearly said that you believe that chains cause aggression. You said:
...Thatswhy People think that Pitbulls are more dogaggresive than other Dogbreds...the Truth is they are not but it depends on the way they life...if you put say 80 or 100 alaskan malamuts or rottweiler or labradors or whatever dogbred on a chain and let them never come together....and then one day you came along and turn all lose...you know what would happen!
It may have not been what you meant to say, I do understand that this is not your native language, no big deal.

The fact that a dog can't sniff each other does not mean anything. These dogs are bred to be aggressive. Example, my dog has never been on a chain and he hates other dogs. You can raise an APBT off a chain and it would still be aggressive towards other dogs if it is in its blood.

In fact if you would ask an old time breeder if he breds for aggresivenes or for that his dogs should hate each other...he would smile and say: Son, i dont bred curs, you have a lot to learn.

What does this mean? I never said that the purpose of the dogs breeding was aggression. Tell me this then, how would you ever know if the dog is game if it is cold?

<!-- / message --><!-- / message --><!-- / message --><!-- / message -->I am not trying to be rude, being that you are from another country, this may be a big misunderstanding.

[realonebulldog]

I am not trying to be rude, being that you are from another country, this may be a big misunderstanding.:) Ok first i have to thank you for given me your time..thanks...My dogs killed each other nearly, but now and before that they go well together..a perfect team...think that showes they dont H A T E each other.

For me the fight is an absolut natural thing...do you know that elephantbulls in africa fight sometimes 4-6 houers? Sometimes one dies after that....rarely both...you know that 25% of all male tigers die in fights against each other...?They fight for females or in other words for her genes.

there might be some kind of lanquage barrier,,so I will try this,,you have this whole thing just a little backwards,,your dogs are not on emotion,,to have feelings like "hate",, and for them to reason that they may or may not hate each other is not what they do,,,dogs (animals) live on instinct,,not on thought process,,they don't plot what they are going to do,,it just happens,,and bulldogs will fight for 3 or 4 hrs also,,,it's because of territory,,food,,,what they see as a preditor. they could be litter mates,,they don't see it that way,, to leave them together unattended is not smart.
Humans used an importand tool from mother nature and that produced ouer noble bred....and remember mother nature never produced for look...she know why:)

If you select your dogs with help of this tool then your line gets all that what the fight needs:stamina,ability,endurance,inteligence and most important...absolut and unbelivable conzentrationability=gameness...in fact some of this dogs are able to lose never i mean N E V ER theyr Focus and that can create unbelivable situations....

Yes aggresion comes allong too thats normal but the fight dont need aggresion because the fight need conzentration...if aggresion in a fight kicks in then the dogs showes bad signs like growling...and you know what that mean...he lost his conzentration...he lost his focus...he cant help about that but he would not give his genes anymore...
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Thats what i mean when i sayd: He was never bred to start a fight, he was bred to win...whe have it all in ouer bred from the cold bitch that produced game to the fight crazy bitch that produced poore....aggresion is a natural thing...it comes along but you cant fixed in the breeding...because its not needed its not important.The problem is aggresion lookes much more impresive with ouer bred because whe have no bluffer in ouer bred..lol but thats another story...

So i hope i could explain something...and that you dont need a translater anymore..lol..yours in Bulldogs<!-- / message --><!-- / message --><!-- / message --><!-- / message --><!-- / message --><!-- sig --><!-- / message -->

[Rockstar]

I am not of the camp that believes the APBT has no pack instinct. To me, that whole idea is absurd. Without a pack order, how would we expect these dogs to safely interact with humans, especially within a family environment? How could we expect one to respond to the wishes of its owner if the owner wasn't recognized as an "Alpha" leader? I've had gamedogs for many years, but I've also owned dogs of other breeds that could cohabitate with the bulldogs without becoming a chew toy. The only way this is possible is to constantly reinforce the dogs' pack instincts. I currently have a chihuahua who can stroll up to 12 of my 13 bulldogs and steal food from them while they are eating. If she wants to sit there in front of them and eat every last morsel, they'll let her, even if it means they go without a meal. These 12 dogs understand that the little one ranks a little higher on the totem pole than themselves. They couldn't respect her more if she were a grizzly bear. However, if she were to try to snatch a kibble from a certain male of mine, she would be dead in a flash, and she knows it. He's ranked higher in the pack, therefore she respects his boundaries. The little chi has survived 5 years among dogs that would kill each other at the first available opportunity, because every dog knows its place in relation to her, and she knows her place in relation to them. I work carefully and consistently to maintain the order of things.
When it comes to the bulldogs themselves though, I've never had any luck trying to cultivate a pack order amongst them. I used to believe it wasn't possible, but I know people who've been successful with it. One good friend in particular is a skilled behaviorist and has been able to allow several proven gamedogs to run together at the same time, and can leave 3 or 4 together in his house unattended for hours without incident. But his knowledge and understanding of canine behavior, and his skill as a trainer is probably more than I'm ever likely to comprehend. I've almost always had certain males that could get along magnificently with certain females, but anything beyond that has usually led to me having to patch up a couple of dogs, or myself, after having to break them apart.

Realone, to say that the APBT, as a breed, is no more animal-aggressive than other breeds is unwise and untrue. There's nothing for me to say about it that hasn't already been said by others.

In regards to the case in question: When Bailey was arrested, the media reported that his dogs were living in "deplorable" conditions. When officials raided Floyd's property, reports claimed his dogs were attached to 3-foot chains. Of course, such reports were bullshit, and undoubtedly the claims being made against this man are exaggerated as well. The only evidence we have of his wrongdoing is what we're being told by those who get off on spreading lies. If the guy is guilty of what they say, then he deserves not only to go to jail, but to be repeatedly beaten and gang-raped by six big hairy southern boys throughout his stay. It would be wrong though, for any of us to condemn the guy based on the words of histrionic news reporters, narcissistic law enforcement officers, and an obviously ignorant and biased "veterinarian."

[sajoseph]

Isn't it funny how-some how the little ones ALWAYS seem to become the "Alpha" so to say??I have 2 APBTs and 2 Pekenese. The one Peke is the "man" of the home. Boy, he is the bos. And there is no training him, he just is! He can just give the other s that"look" and they cower.

Why do such little dogs have such HUGE attitudes-Why do the big dogs cower and let them??
I'll never understand, but that seems like it is the way it has always been!

[catcher T]

imagine my surprise,,when the parrot comes off her perch to bite someone in the butt,,the dog I call my bad @ss runs in his crate and hides,,,when she walks across the floor all the the animals part like the red sea,,she is for sure the alpha in my house.

[realonebulldog]

Realone, to say that the APBT, as a breed, is no more animal-aggressive than other breeds is unwise and untrue. There's nothing for me to say about it that hasn't already been said by others.
Yes...packorder thats the word..thanks..its imposible for dogs to get a packorder if they havent the chance to come to each other. For example if they are on chains(and please, i love chains ok?)and cant touch each other all the time...and then suddenly you turn them lose..well then they try to clear something...dont matter if whe talk about rottweiler,shepherds,pitbulls or chicens....

[realonebulldog]

[QUOTE=realonebulldog]Realone, to say that the APBT, as a breed, is no more animal-aggressive than other breeds is unwise and untrue. There's nothing for me to say about it that hasn't already been said by others.
:)And now about animalaggresivenes...ok bulldogs are able to kill badgers,wildboars and wolverines..and they fight in silence..they attack in les then a second..i K N O W that...but what has that to do with aggresivenes? Ok other breds would not attack...and they are not able to fight as long or as good...thats clear...but again what has that to do with aggresivenes...? The bulldog is a full conzentrated worker..he is a natural born fighter hence his genetic task...but believe me other breds are as aggresive...the point is that this other breds are not realones ....Aggresivenes is for cures..skill is for fighters!

[tommy3]

:) Ok first i have to thank you for given me your time..thanks...My dogs killed each other nearly, but now and before that they go well together..a perfect team...think that showes they dont H A T E each other.

For me the fight is an absolut natural thing...do you know that elephantbulls in africa fight sometimes 4-6 houers? Sometimes one dies after that....rarely both...you know that 25% of all male tigers die in fights against each other...?They fight for females or in other words for her genes.


Humans used an importand tool from mother nature and that produced ouer noble bred....and remember mother nature never produced for look...she know why:)

If you select your dogs with help of this tool then your line gets all that what the fight needs:stamina,ability,endurance,inteligence and most important...absolut and unbelivable conzentrationability=gameness...in fact some of this dogs are able to lose never i mean N E V ER theyr Focus and that can create unbelivable situations....

Yes aggresion comes allong too thats normal but the fight dont need aggresion because the fight need conzentration...if aggresion in a fight kicks in then the dogs showes bad signs like growling...and you know what that mean...he lost his conzentration...he lost his focus...he cant help about that but he would not give his genes anymore...
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Thats what i mean when i sayd: He was never bred to start a fight, he was bred to win...whe have it all in ouer bred from the cold bitch that produced game to the fight crazy bitch that produced poore....aggresion is a natural thing...it comes along but you cant fixed in the breeding...because its not needed its not important.The problem is aggresion lookes much more impresive with ouer bred because whe have no bluffer in ouer bred..lol but thats another story...

So i hope i could explain something...and that you dont need a translater anymore..lol..yours in Bulldogs<!-- / message --><!-- / message --><!-- / message --><!-- / message --><!-- / message --><!-- sig --><!-- / message -->
It seems that we have different definitions for aggression and gameness. When I say that APBTs are more aggressive than any other breed, it has nothing to do with the visual aspects. It has to do with the fact that these dogs are wanting to fight. It has nothing to do with growling. Visual things such as growling are considered threat displays, not aggression.
Also, I do not see how gameness and concentration have anything to do with each other.

[tommy3]

I am not of the camp that believes the APBT has no pack instinct. To me, that whole idea is absurd. Without a pack order, how would we expect these dogs to safely interact with humans, especially within a family environment? How could we expect one to respond to the wishes of its owner if the owner wasn't recognized as an "Alpha" leader? I've had gamedogs for many years, but I've also owned dogs of other breeds that could cohabitate with the bulldogs without becoming a chew toy. The only way this is possible is to constantly reinforce the dogs' pack instincts. I currently have a chihuahua who can stroll up to 12 of my 13 bulldogs and steal food from them while they are eating. If she wants to sit there in front of them and eat every last morsel, they'll let her, even if it means they go without a meal. These 12 dogs understand that the little one ranks a little higher on the totem pole than themselves. They couldn't respect her more if she were a grizzly bear. However, if she were to try to snatch a kibble from a certain male of mine, she would be dead in a flash, and she knows it. He's ranked higher in the pack, therefore she respects his boundaries. The little chi has survived 5 years among dogs that would kill each other at the first available opportunity, because every dog knows its place in relation to her, and she knows her place in relation to them. I work carefully and consistently to maintain the order of things.
When it comes to the bulldogs themselves though, I've never had any luck trying to cultivate a pack order amongst them. I used to believe it wasn't possible, but I know people who've been successful with it. One good friend in particular is a skilled behaviorist and has been able to allow several proven gamedogs to run together at the same time, and can leave 3 or 4 together in his house unattended for hours without incident. But his knowledge and understanding of canine behavior, and his skill as a trainer is probably more than I'm ever likely to comprehend. I've almost always had certain males that could get along magnificently with certain females, but anything beyond that has usually led to me having to patch up a couple of dogs, or myself, after having to break them apart..I was not saying that APBTs lack a pack instinct. At least, that is not what I was trying to say. I was saying that APBTs can not acquire much of a pack order within a group of dogs because of their behavior. However, you have proven me wrong on that aspect. I have never heard or seen a group of bulldogs that can achieve a pack order. Anything, is possible I guess. But the chances of it happening seem very unlikely. You would have to constantly reinforce this behavior to get it to work, as you said. So, on the other hand, I will stick to believing that bulldogs can not achieve a pack order within the wild, as Realone claims is possible.

[realonebulldog]

Also, I do not see how gameness and concentration have anything to do with each other.[/QUOTE] :) Realy not? A bulldogdog fights , he is exhausted,he is serious woundet, one leg is brocken...he is outguned..nearly destroyd...his handler picks him up ...he can hardly stand anymore,altough his eyes lost his focus..and when the handler release him for a courte scratch he shoot across....and you will seriously say this has nothing to do with conzentrationability...?Perhaps you will say this has nothing to do with gameness? From my point of view conzentrationability and gamenes are the same thing...and you can fixe it in your breeding!

[sajoseph]

Wow! 86 posts in reply to a dog fighting ring broken up in Polk County....and when was the last reply actually geared towards the original post??

LOL!

[realonebulldog]

Wow! 86 posts in reply to a dog fighting ring broken up in Polk County....and when was the last reply actually geared towards the original post??

LOL!All that has a little bit to do with the whole story...i think...or?:::LOL :)

[rocksteady]

Curs will go after hogs left and right ,concentrating on the task set before them but that doesnt mean they are game. Bird dogs concentrate on finding the bird or coon hounds concentrate on treeing a coon.. yet it doesnt mean any of them are game. It just means they have aa strong drive to do something. Concentration is just one peice of the puzzle.. there are many other factors involved

[tommy3]

Also, I do not see how gameness and concentration have anything to do with each other. :) Realy not? A bulldogdog fights , he is exhausted,he is serious woundet, one leg is brocken...he is outguned..nearly destroyd...his handler picks him up ...he can hardly stand anymore,altough his eyes lost his focus..and when the handler release him for a courte scratch he shoot across....and you will seriously say this has nothing to do with conzentrationability...?Perhaps you will say this has nothing to do with gameness? From my point of view conzentrationability and gamenes are the same thing...and you can fixe it in your breeding!Concentration and gameness are not the same thing. I can not see how you can associate one for the other.
Concentration is defined as a directing of the attention or of the mental faculties toward a single object.
Gameness can be defined as an unweilding spirit to achieve an obstacle regardless of the consequences.

Just because I can concentrate on a math problem, it does not mean that I am game.
Do you see what I am saying?
I think that you are referring to drive. However, drive and gameness should not be confused with each other either.
I think that you are just using the wrong words. I am just trying to understand where you are coming from.

[tommy3]

All that has a little bit to do with the whole story...i think...or?:::LOL :)
Not really. We went way off track..

[realonebulldog]

Curs will go after hogs left and right ,concentrating on the task set before them but that doesnt mean they are game. Bird dogs concentrate on finding the bird or coon hounds concentrate on treeing a coon.. yet it doesnt mean any of them are game. It just means they have aa strong drive to do something. Concentration is just one peice of the puzzle.. there are many other factors involved :)hog dogs are game...but fightdogs are more game...why? Because nothing needs as much conzentrationability as the serious fight...if you bred with the fight as a genetic task you get dogs wich are able to do it all...thatswhy the bulldogcan do most of the things other dogs can..finding birds...coons...hogs ...rescue dog..police dog..AND MORE... he has the big package of conzentrationability ...because of his outstanding,awesome genetic task...he can do all what other dogs can..and after that he is able to wip them...call it gameness...i call it conzentrationability:)

[tommy3]

:)hog dogs are game...but fightdogs are more game...why? Because nothing needs as much conzentrationability as the serious fight...if you bred with the fight as a genetic task you get dogs wich are able to do it all...thatswhy the bulldogcan do most of the things other dogs can..finding birds...coons...hogs ...rescue dog..police dog..AND MORE... he has the big package of conzentrationability ...because of his outstanding,awesome genetic task...he can do all what other dogs can..and after that he is able to wip them...call it gameness...i call it conzentrationability:)
lol
You are crazy. I guess you are not talking about concentration....

Next time some idiot asks me if my dog is game I'll tell them "nah, he has conzentrationability." Thats great. I have no idea what it means but it is funny.

[14rock]

I've given this thread some time for the sake of discussion but it is now clear it will be nothing more than a debate no-one agrees upon. Further, the misinformation in this thread is dangerous for the bulldog owner and that is why this thread is now closed.