gottiline?

[dixiedog]

I know there are very few if any gottilint/greyline, razors edge advocates here so don't bash me to hard for asking the question:
how do you guys feel about gottiline dogs that have been be produced by responsible breeders, that are proven in weight pull, obedience and confirmation.
the gottiline seems to be booming these days and i'm just curious about your opiinons,

[El Mexicano]

i dont think any gotti line dogs have been bred by responsible people that know what the breed is supposed to be about..if they knew what they where doin they maybe would fit the standard.

[MASON]

I'm sorry, but I dont know of any gottiline dog that has championed in either weight pull or Conformation. If so, than there is a first for everything. Selectively bred for health problems and overdone dogs is what they have done..

[Brothermarree]

Weight pull RE that' it as far as I know- Don't know how much RE is in there-

[GSDbulldog]

If you could provide me with some examples of Gottiline dogs who've proved themselves worthy, then I could post an unbiased opinion. However, I have not heard of any responsible breeder who claimed to have Gotti dogs. The majority of people breeding these dogs are breeding for looks, end of story.

The truth is: Responsible AmStaff and APBT breeders probably won't touch that line with a 10 foot stick, simply because the majority of the dogs produced are below standard. Not to mention the rep that the dogs have amongst "thugs" and "macho" types.

[SEAL]

the gotti line seems to be booming due to its "popularity" not so much because of its production. look around you may find a dog with good gotti blood but any time you go with the "popular" thing you may not even get a gotti line dog. why are you looking for that blood anyway i havent seen anything extrodinary coming from it as of late. just cuz the cool kids are doing it doesnt mean its the best thing to do. jk jk.

really look around there are a lot of correct dogs and other blood lines doing well in the activities that you mentioned. dont buy into a name buy a dog.

[bahamutt99]

how do you guys feel about gottiline dogs that have been be produced by responsible breeders, that are proven in weight pull, obedience and confirmation.
I would like to see an example of this. Because without one, we might as well be talking about dragons and unicorns. To my knowledge, neither exists.

But to answer as if this were the case, I would still not feel great about Gotti or any other lines bred for exaggeration. Any dog can title in weight pull and obedience. That does not mean they should be bred. (Not downplaying the importance of working titles in a breeding program, just saying they are obtainable by most.) Some of the dogs that weight pull are structural train wrecks, but they get 'er done because they have heart, or a very skilled trainer. As for conformation, if you drag your dog into the ring enough, sooner or later it can finish. (Again, no downplaying. I think conformation titles are important.)

You have to look at the whole picture. Yes, maybe a Gotti dog is multi-titled, but did he pass a full health screening? Is his temperament sound enough to pass a TT? Does he have the endurance and grit that should characterize this breed? Is he built as such that he could be sent in to do his historical job? Will this dog still be walking around on his own (much less playing or working) in 10 years?

[PiTBuLL200416]

I was once lost thinking that those dogs were real APBT but I got a few hits up side my head from my uncle who told me what those breeders are all about and now I almost throw up every single time I see one of those dogs. LOL

[dixiedog]

well, i got about what i expected out of that question. One of you said that gotti pits are being bred for looks. what do you mean by that? as for the reputation of the dogs with thugs and macho types, the breed has a reputation with thugs and macho types and to specify a particular line seems a bit out of question. there's plenty of thugs and macho idiots from around here and the majority of them have a yard full of imbred mongrels that they seem to think improves their tough guy image. i own an eighteen inch, 57 pound female pit that is the love of me and my family's life. She, supprisingly given her breeder, fits very closely to the breed standards of the AKC amstaff, and is the best dog i've ever owned. if i was as harshly biased and outwardly against any dog that didn't meet my strict requirements in the ideal dog of my choice, i wouldn't have got her and she would've ended up on the end of a chain in someones yard waiting on her next fight. I sympathize with everyones desire to keep the breed true but have a hard time seeing how these so called APBT advocates and hard core embassadors to the breed can be so quick to condem an entire line of dogs. I've personally witnessed these dogs who may or may not be ready to bait a bull or gon into the pit, but are very well mannered, healthy companions ready to go to war for their masters. I know id be fighting a losing battle in here trying to defend the razors edge or gottiline pitbulls and i myself am not really that strong of an advocate for the majority of the gottiline seen but there are some good things happening and there are some good dogs coming out of there. I just hate to see such dissention among a community that has a target on its back as it is. and i hate to see a specific line of this breed singled out and blamed for problems that are and have been occuring throughout the entire breed.

[PiTBuLL200416]

Me personally am not attacking the dog even though I said what I said nor am I a person with hatred towards any dog thats not APBT. I just hate to see this breed destroyed by people that are more interested in what goes in the pockets instead of presearving the beautiful breed of APBT. I've been around alot of dogs that were mistaking for APBT and I tell you this when you be around a Gottline dog then be around a game bred APBT they are totally different. Now if they are suppose to be the same thing isn't there a problem with that.

[14rock]

well, i got about what i expected out of that question. One of you said that gotti pits are being bred for looks. what do you mean by that?
Maybe that was a bit close-minded, correction....they are bred for money AND looks.

I sympathize with everyones desire to keep the breed true but have a hard time seeing how these so called APBT advocates and hard core embassadors to the breed can be so quick to condem an entire line of dogs.
Because we are hard-core ambassadors, we want to keep the breed. We dont want our breed becoming mongrel mutts that are totally diffrent using our name.

I've personally witnessed these dogs who may or may not be ready to bait a bull or gon into the pit, but are very well mannered, healthy companions ready to go to war for their masters.
To save you the imagination-no these dogs couldnt bait a bull, even if it was legal. Even 150 years ago when that took place, the dogs had to have the grit to stay in there for more than 30 seconds.

Well-mannered, Good. I respect that in a dog. Hell, maybe they are good companions, I dont doubt it. But they most certainly arent healthy!

I know id be fighting a losing battle in here trying to defend the razors edge or gottiline pitbulls and i myself am not really that strong of an advocate for the majority of the gottiline seen but there are some good things happening and there are some good dogs coming out of there.
Hey, its a public forum, anyone can give their opinions. However, for a real discussion facts need to be given from both sides. So far the facts are these dogs arent Amstaff or APBT, the breeders are 99 % of the time puppy peddlers and undesirable people as a whole. May I ask what are the "good things happening and there are some good dogs coming out there" ? All I've yet to see is overgrown mutts peddled by BYB for an ego and financial gain.

I just hate to see such dissention among a community that has a target on its back as it is. and i hate to see a specific line of this breed singled out and blamed for problems that are and have been occuring throughout the entire breed.
Its NOT the dogs. Its the breeders and owners who claim they are APBT and exploit these poor things for their own gain! I would have no problem with people owning 90 lb. blue dogs with 25'' heads...as long as they were being bred to a healthy standard, culled as necessary, and called by their name!


...........

[miakoda]

"Juan Gotti" supposed "pit bull"
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/silverstarkennel/gotti2.jpeg

"H.S.B.'s Fast Eddie" AKC English Bulldog (former show dog)
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/1/6/2/1/eddie.jpg

[miakoda]

Yeah, except he's more the size of our 100lb Olde English Bulldogge (which is most definitely in the Notoriously Shitty Gotti's pedigree).

I just spent an hour looking at the kennels these dogs come out from. So far, on average, each kennel is advertising 2 litters (mind you it's only the 3rd week in Jan!) & some already have 7 litters w/some on the ground now & some due in a week or 2. And absolutely NONE of the dogs weigh less than 85lbs w/the majority well over 100lbs & only inches off the ground w/bowed elbows, cowhocks, & numerous other structural problems. But hey, they're "rare" & "bully".

Excuse me for I must go throw up now.....what I've seen makes me want to cry. What the hell is wrong with the west coast?

[PiTBuLL200416]

No problem except for the fact that everywhere I go everyone here thinks a they have a nice pit bull just because its one hundred pounds with a twenty five inch head. I stay in arguements about the real deal and the history or what not. It gets hella fustrating and people out here are ignorant but no problem LOL.

[Brothermarree]

Yeah, I feel ya pit bull, especislly when they keep telling ya "your dog should be like 100 lbs....... His ribs shouldn't show" "He's looking skinny"
I mean come on the the dogs is a 70 lb dog why try to put 30 lbs on him to look bigger?
Takes away from his ability to look muscular ( yeah I like muscular looking dogs) and will take his wind and then he's no good for pull.

[Diesel]

Okay... there is no gottiline really. Its greyline.... gottiline is a term that one particular guy(richard Barajas) started tossing around as he is the person that own Gotty. Gotty is a greyline dog, and the dogs that he are bred to are greyline dogs... how does that make them gottiline? He is piggybacking on several sketchy breedings, with very sketchy dogs and highly questionable pedigrees and everyone is eating it up on the west coast. I love greyline, its a line of dogs that were bred to be big yet functional... greyline dogs are very impressive, large, driven and athletic. Gottiline dogs are dogs that are so heavily inbred that the faults are coming through, and instead of doing what a good breeder should and outcrossing for a cleaner animal, they continue to add gotty blood to the mix, there are litters out there that are 5, 6, and even 7 times gotty! With over 700 pups on the ground and still breeding Gotty has a great deal of kids under his belt. people are breeding all of his kids together and this is where the term "gottiline" is coming from.
Dont confuse gottiline with greyline... they are very different. Greyline is the actual bloodline, gottiline is the term that they are using strictly for the offspring of one dog in the line.

Just thought I would trow that out there, since this subject is going to keep popping up might as well assist in it being accurate.

other pictures of Gotty-
http://www.bluebulldozer.com/Juan_Gotty.jpg
http://www.broadstbullies.com/images/gotti1.gif
http://chaotickennels.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/gotti2.gif

[B]

Let's keep this on topic. If you have useful information to add then please post. If you have a comment that lasts a couple words then you will do better to say it to yourself. Please only post pertinent information!

Regards,

B

[Diesel]

Your right, lets not degenerate the post.
Its pretty good so far.

Most dogs are not actually 100 pounds, they are very rare to really be that big, people lie A LOT about the size of their dogs, thinking that bigger is better. when the truth of the matter is a well put together 80 pound dogs gets much more respect then a sloppy 100 any day of the week... when you are dealing with someone that knows dogs that is. Its not about the size, its about the all around dog. Headsize is a plus but again a nice shaped 23 is better then a bulbous 25... shape gives the impression of size.
People get caught up in size and they over do it. it sucks for the dogs becuase they are kept fat instead of fit. I am seeing more and more people talking about the dogs weight though, so thats a good sign.

[choppa]

All Of You Must Have Started The Gottiline Or Been Involved With All The BREEDINGS OF HIS PARENTS & THERE PARENTS & SO ON Of This Dog? If Not Your Opinion's Don't Meen Shit To Me. If Yall Weren't Involved In All The Breedings Than How Do You No Everyone Is All About The Money, Thats Your Opinion And Who Are You

[tommy3]

All Of You Must Have Started The Gottiline Or Been Involved With All The Breedings Of This Dog? If Not Your Opinion's Don't Meen Shit To Me. If Yall Weren't Involved In All The Breedings Than How Do You No Everyone Is All About The Money, Thats Your Opinion And Who Are You
Even if they weren't bred for money, they sure as hell weren't bred to better the breed.

[choppa]

Even if they weren't bred for money, they sure as hell weren't bred to better the breed.THE BREED SEEMS FINE TO ME

[Miss Conduct]

How Is The "breed" Fine?????? I Do Not Consider An Over Weight, Stretched Out Frame Type Dog "fine".


They Are Not Normal, And Should Not Be Excepted! Dogs Like These That Occur, Need To Be Spay'd/neuter'd!!

[choppa]

How Is The "breed" Fine?????? I Do Not Consider An Over Weight, Stretched Out Frame Type Dog "fine".


They Are Not Normal, And Should Not Be Excepted! Dogs Like These That Occur, Need To Be Spay'd/neuter'd!!IF YOU DONT WANT ONE WHY SHOULD YOU CARE ABOUT THERE WEIGHT & FRAME. IF YOUR OVER WEIGHT I THINK YOU SHOULD BE FIXED TO BETTER ARE BREED

[Miss Conduct]

Oh Rock How I Love You!! ;) Lol

You Always Post The Absolute Best Posts!!!!!

[choppa]

Since You Call Them Mixed You Must Have Breed These Dogs Or Started There Bloodline. If You No So Much Give Me One Fact That You No On How They Are Mixed. You Must Have Been The Person Who Started The Bloodline Or Breed Some Of The Dogs Yourself, If Not Your Just Stating Your Opinion & I Could Care Less. Respond With The Fact, Don't Let It Be Some Week Shit Like There Size That Ain't Good Anuff, I Want A Fact Something You Can Prove Not Hearsay

[SouthernDixie]

Oh Rock How I Love You!! ;) Lol

You Always Post The Absolute Best Posts!!!!!
I know I just read it... now where did it go?? LoL

[Miss Conduct]

Hey... Im Not Crazy Haahaha There Was A Post By Rock Lol.


And No, Im Not Overweight "choppa", I Try And Stay Healthy Just Like My Dogs. I Enjoy Being Able To Run, And I Know That My Dogs Would Say The Same If They Could Speak!!

[14rock]

I retracted my own posts, as it is quite obvious this person has closed their mind to tell themselves their fad ownership is justified.


If you cant look at this picture and see a MAJOR resemblance, you've got problems. This was the first pic that came up when I googled "gotti APBT" and then a seperate search for "English Bulldog"...if you would like me to look further I can find even closer pictures I'm sure....that is a show bred English bulldog, working english bulldogs look even closer in resemblance.

[Miss Conduct]

Since You Call Them Mixed You Must Have Breed These Dogs Or Started There Bloodline. If You No So Much Give Me One Fact That You No On How They Are Mixed. You Must Have Been The Person Who Started The Bloodline Or Breed Some Of The Dogs Yourself, If Not Your Just Stating Your Opinion & I Could Care Less. Respond With The Fact, Don't Let It Be Some Week Shit Like There Size That Ain't Good Anuff, I Want A Fact Something You Can Prove Not Hearsay
you dont have to be a genious to SEEEE that the dogs have been mixed, there are people that new the puppy millers.. oh, excuse me "breeders" of these curs that admited to other breeds being mixed in to ad "massive bone structure, 24" heads, etc".

Sometimes a larger dog can come out of small parents, but nothing like those dogs. For instance one of my males is 53 pounds cw, his brothers/sisters are low 40's - high 30's. My dog is NOT fat whatsoever, he just happend to be the freak of the litter....

Larger "natural" freaks of the APBT generally have frames/heads that are in proportion to their size (aka they DONT have abnormally wide chests w/small back ends, etc.)

PLEASE research the ORIGINAL APBT and you will see what we are talking about. In this growing fad of monster dogs, we are DESPERATLEY trying to educate and keep our dogs true to form. I REFUSE to call my dogs "Pit Bulls", because the name makes me think of a fat monster of a cur, and my dogs are nothing like that.

Im NOT saying that these dogs cannot make good pets, i am sure that they do (if you dont mind paying monster vet/food bills), but they SHOULD NOT BE BRED AND MASS PRODUCED.

If you want a 23" head inbetween your legs (ROFL), buy a dog that was MEANT to be that way (OEB, Masstiff, etc), please leave our breed alone.

JMO

[choppa]

Where's The Fact????????????????????//

[14rock]

Can you prove he is not a mutt?

[choppa]

you dont have to be a genious to SEEEE that the dogs have been mixed, there are people that new the puppy millers.. oh, excuse me "breeders" of these curs that admited to other breeds being mixed in to ad "massive bone structure, 24" heads, etc".

Sometimes a larger dog can come out of small parents, but nothing like those dogs. For instance one of my males is 53 pounds cw, his brothers/sisters are low 40's - high 30's. My dog is NOT fat whatsoever, he just happend to be the freak of the litter....

Larger "natural" freaks of the APBT generally have frames/heads that are in proportion to their size (aka they DONT have abnormally wide chests w/small back ends, etc.)

PLEASE research the ORIGINAL APBT and you will see what we are talking about. In this growing fad of monster dogs, we are DESPERATLEY trying to educate and keep our dogs true to form. I REFUSE to call my dogs "Pit Bulls", because the name makes me think of a fat monster of a cur, and my dogs are nothing like that.

Im NOT saying that these dogs cannot make good pets, i am sure that they do (if you dont mind paying monster vet/food bills), but they SHOULD NOT BE BRED AND MASS PRODUCED.

If you want a 23" head inbetween your legs (ROFL), buy a dog that was MEANT to be that way (OEB, Masstiff, etc), please leave our breed alone.

JMOYOU SAY YOUR BREED LIKE YOU STARTEDE THIS BULLDOG SHIT IOTS NO MORE YOUR BREEDE THAN MINE YOU JUST STRUCK A NERVE YOU SAY OUR BREED DO YOU HAVE A MOUSE IN YOU R POCKET YOU CANT TELL SOMEBODY TO LEAVE SOMETHING ALONE WHAT ARE YOU THE COMISH

[Miss Conduct]

haha i didnt ever claim to start the breed, i said MY breed, because i dont include those dogs in my dogs breed. I think they need to have a COMP seperate name altogether.

Look at my gallery then look at those dogs, they do not look similar whatsoever.

And im done talking to you, you are obviously one of the "ignernts" that just refuse to learn. :(

[choppa]

Can you prove he is not a mutt? WHERE YOUR PROOF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SO WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE

[Miss Conduct]

does this dog look anything like mine?? nope, and im not saying my dog is the breed standard either, but a heckuva lot closer than that thing....

http://www.southernpitbulls.com/quake1.jpg

i even posted my biggest (53 pounds) dog...
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/2/5/2/5/ThorScenicPic.jpg

[choppa]

does this dog look anything like mine?? nope, and im not saying my dog is the breed standard either, but a heckuva lot closer than that thing....

http://www.southernpitbulls.com/quake1.jpg

i even posted my biggest (53 pounds) dog...
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/2/5/2/5/ThorScenicPic.jpgNICE DOGS BUT PITS COME IN ALL SIZES DO THEY NOT? I DO NOT WANT A DOG UNDER 40LBS I LIKE BIGGER DOGS BUT I DONT GO TALKING SHIT ABOUT STUFF I DONT NO ABOUT. ALL I ASKED 4 WAS ONE FACT WHERE'S IT AT

[SouthernDixie]

[QUOTE=14rock]Can you prove he is not a mutt?[/QUOTE WHERE YOUR PROOF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SO WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE
He's still here because this is a forum dedicated to the APBT in it's true form of standards. Hence why the topic of discussion is very much so disliked.

[Miss Conduct]

i think this needs to be closed, no need arguing a point thats not going to ba taken.

[Miss Conduct]

you dont have to have a dog under 40 pounds, there are plenty of dogs bred to standard in the 50-60 pound range.

I was trying to tell you that these 90+ pound, 3 foot wide framed dogs are not to standard, and if you want an APBT, those arent it.

If you want a large/massive dog - why not a Rottie, Mastiff, BullDog?? These are good dogs, and they were bred to be this way.

The APBT is a medium size breed (though there are the occasional bigger dogs, i know this). Medium is generally 30-60 pounds max.

[choppa]

i think this needs to be closed, no need arguing a point thats not going to ba taken.IF YOU DONT HAVE THE FACT DON'T REPLY, THATS ALL I WANT

[tommy3]

IF YOU DONT HAVE THE FACT DON'T REPLY, THATS ALL I WANTIt is a fact that you can't breed dogs of a small stature to gain double their weight, increase head size by about twice the size, and widen the dog twice the normal size within a few generations. It is impossible by means of genetics.

Do you honestly think that you can take those gottiline dogs and breed them together without introducing anything else and produce 40 lb dogs within a few generations?
You can't. It is impossible.

If you think you can, you need to step on back to reality.

[Defend2DaEnd]

I think the point is that most breeds still look the same as when they were originally brought about.
http://pre1900prints.com/DomesticAnimals/EnglishGreyhoundsAldine74.jpg greyhound 1875
http://www.kennels.co.uk/images/Greyhound.jpg (http://www.ransleygreyhounds.com/)greyhound today

If these dogs were bred bigger or smaller (in which they have done) or with more hair they would be called something else (whippet, saluki, and so on).

There is no NATURAL way a dog that looked like this originally
http://www.gamedog.info/photos/freddie.jpg

turned to this without mixing the blood in something else






<CENTER>http://www.southcoastgottiline.com/bentnew2.JPG\
http://www.truebluepitbulls.com/images/GLBOOGIE01.jpg





</CENTER>

[choppa]

It is a fact that you can't breed dogs of a small stature to gain double their weight, increase head size by about twice the size, and widen the dog twice the normal size within a few generations. It is impossible by means of genetics.

Do you honestly think that you can take those gottiline dogs and breed them together without introducing anything else and produce 40 lb dogs within a few generations?
You can't. It is impossible.

If you think you can, you need to step on back to reality.NOT ALL PITS ARE OF SMALL STRUCTURE ARE THEY?

[Defend2DaEnd]

sorry the pictures turned out so big lol

[choppa]

I think the point is that most breeds still look the same as when they were originally brought about.
http://pre1900prints.com/DomesticAnimals/EnglishGreyhoundsAldine74.jpg greyhound 1875
http://www.kennels.co.uk/images/Greyhound.jpg (http://www.ransleygreyhounds.com/)greyhound today

If these dogs were bred bigger or smaller (in which they have done) or with more hair they would be called something else (whippet, saluki, and so on).

There is no NATURAL way a dog that looked like this originally
http://www.gamedog.info/photos/freddie.jpg

turned to this without mixing the blood in something else








<CENTER>http://www.southcoastgottiline.com/bentnew2.JPG



</CENTER>




HOW DO YOU NO ITS MIXED IF YOU DIDN'T MIX IT. the pics don't look that much different

[Defend2DaEnd]

Did you? Where you the original breeder? How do you know they aren't? I mean your trying to tell me in under 30 years a dog more than doubles head size and weight is not mixed? Ok my bandogges a boxer because her great grandparents were?

[ABK]

You "know" by using something called "deductive reasoning." Pretty simple.

[choppa]

BLABLABLABLABLABLABLABBLABLABLABLABLABABLABLABLABL ABLBLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLA

[tommy3]

Edit: I moved my reply.

[Miss Conduct]

http://www.truebluepitbulls.com/images/GLBOOGIE01.jpg

IF YOU CANT SEE THE ENGLISH BULLDOG IN THIS CUR, YOU NEED SOME NEW EYES!!

[Miss Conduct]

I Think Choppa Has Stumbled Onto The Wrong Site.

[tommy3]

NOT ALL PITS ARE OF SMALL STRUCTURE ARE THEY?You rarely find any pure APBTs over 65 lbs. You will never find one that is as wide and bigheaded as these gottiline dogs.

Therefore, tell me how do you take pure dogs that are just a little large but still structurally resemble the APBT and make them consistently 30+ lbs bigger than they originally were and completely change the bone and head structure of the original dogs within a few generations to the point where they look nothing like the original dogs that you started with.

If it was possible, someone could turn a french bulldog into an english bulldog within a few generations. Of course, anyone with common sense would laugh at such an idea.

What you are saying is the same idea. Take one breed and change it completely within a few generations without mixing it with any other breed. Seriously, look at what you are saying. It is impossible.

[choppa]

http://www.truebluepitbulls.com/images/GLBOOGIE01.jpg

IF YOU CANT SEE THE ENGLISH BULLDOG IN THIS CUR, YOU NEED SOME NEW EYES!!i LIKE THE TOP DOG BETTER

[PiTBuLL200416]

Honestly that particular dog is ugly but some of them look nice, now I'm not saying they should be breed because they look nice but all I gotta say is that alot of people love the bigger APBT's not bigger dogs. They love the fact that a dog around 85 to 90 pounds can still jump, run, and move fast. I've been around a mastiff and I've been around a 90 to 100 pound APBT and the APBT moves way better than that mastiff. Now again I'm not sayin it should be bred and I'm not sayin that alot of those dogs shouldn't find a treadmill and loose some weight but if people like these dogs for them self no one should judge them by that.

[choppa]

You rarely find any pure APBTs over 65 lbs. You will never find one that is as wide and bigheaded as these gottiline dogs.

Therefore, tell me how do you take pure dogs that are just a little large but still structurally resemble the APBT and make them consistently 30+ lbs bigger than they originally were and completely change the bone and head structure of the original dogs within a few generations to the point where they look nothing like the original dogs that you started with.

If it was possible, someone could turn a french bulldog into an english bulldog within a few generations. Of course, anyone with common sense would laugh at such an idea.

What you are saying is the same idea. Take one breed and change it completely within a few generations without mixing it with any other breed. Seriously, look at what you are saying. It is impossible.SO WHERE YOU THERE WHEN THEY WHERE MIXED IF NOT THATS JUST YOUR OPINION

[SouthernDixie]

Choppa it has become very clear that you are more of a fancier of the fad dogs rather than the APBT in it's original form. In being as polite as possible, I would suggest you stick to those websites and public forums that support those dogs, unless you are interested in learning about the APBT that has stayed true in it's form. If that is the case, there is much to be learned here. If not, well, arguing about whether or not these dogs are mixed is doing no educating, nor does it have any good comming from it - and I'm sure there are plenty of other online forums that will agree with your opinions and beliefs on these types of dogs.

[PiTBuLL200416]

Another thing that I brought up in a different thread was how you breed. What I said was what if a person that had 50 to 60 pound real old fashion APBT's and bred those and continue to breed the biggest out of every litter woundn't the average size of the breed eventually change. What if it was some who bred for head size of regular size and the result of that are some of the dogs we see today.

[420puffer]

http://www.truebluepitbulls.com/images/GLBOOGIE01.jpg

IF YOU CANT SEE THE ENGLISH BULLDOG IN THIS CUR, YOU NEED SOME NEW EYES!!
Choppa: You dont need to actually witness the breeding to know that some other breed was mixed in. Look at this dog for example. I see more english bulldog that anything else..

[Miss Conduct]

Uninformed/Misinformed people i can stand (they dont know any better), but ignorant people i CANNOT STAND.....

[SouthernDixie]

Another thing that I brought up in a different thread was how you breed. What I said was what if a person that had 50 to 60 pound real old fashion APBT's and bred those and continue to breed the biggest out of every litter woundn't the breed the average size eventually change. What if it was some who bred for head size of regular size and the result of that are some of the dogs we see today.It's quite possible, yet in doing some sort of breeding program in search of larger dogs (such as ones posted in this thread) as a result, it would take far more years than it has been since the "fad" dog has risen. Plus breeding for size will eventually lead one to breed for that factor only, slowing forgetting about temperament, ability, gameness, all the aspects of the APBT. Ick! It makes me cringe to think about it.

[PiTBuLL200416]

None of y'all actually think not one of a thousand breeders never bred for size and tried to make bigger APBT's without crossing with other breeds

[PiTBuLL200416]

Oh I get it, my bad I forgot all about breeding for game and thats exactly the point y'all are trying to make. This breed is more then just how it looks and the original standard, its about other things that come with the dog like the number one thing GAME. In that case if there was a man or woman that did breed for size then this breed would be ruined either way because GAME would slowy but surely fade away.

[SouthernDixie]

And their incredible temperament and sporting/working ability would slowly fade away too...

[NOLEFAN]

i have a question, seriously, how do you know your breeding for game without fighting the dogs? Are they going by papers alone?

[PiTBuLL200416]

Yeah I understand now, but what if and I mean IF LOL, one of these big dogs were test for game and had game what would most of you say? Now with asking that question I also ask that you answer that question not say thats impossible or any thing like that. QUESTION >>>ANSWER LOL.

[PiTBuLL200416]

If that were possible and if alot of these big dogs did link to the oringinal APBT 100% no cross and did posses game, agility, working ability, ECT..... Would you still not want those dogs representing the APBT.

[miakoda]

None of y'all actually think not one of a thousand breeders never bred for size and tried to make bigger APBT's without crossing with other breeds
I'm sure there are breeders like that. However, a large dog would occur only randomly & not too often out of "average" size parents. Then one would have to wait for the next large enough dog of the opposite sex to be born. To make a long story short, it would take many, many, many, many, many, many years & generations of animals to produce the size of dogs that are being consisently produced today & the problem arose when these dogs almost "appeared" overnight. It wasn't a gradual evolution, it was a change that came about over the course of approx. a 5 yr period & without the introduction of other breeds (mastiffs usually), then there is no possible way to have achieved the large "success" that these monster breeders have achieved in such a few short years.

When it comes to proving that large dogs do exist, all the bluff breeders want to bring up Mayday. Yes, we all know that Mayday was large dog--all 70lbs of him which to today's "standards" is quite puny. Plus, he was the exception, not the rule.

[PiTBuLL200416]

I Understand That But At The Same Time I See People Just Breed The Largest Of Two Litters And Get Results And I Have Another Question. When Did All Of You Start Noticing These Big Dogs. How Many Years Ago

[miakoda]

I Understand That But At The Same Time I See People Just Breed The Largest Of Two Litters And Get Results And I Have Another Question. When Did All Of You Start Noticing These Big Dogs. How Many Years Ago
Honestly, I didn't notice that the large, monster, fashion accessory type dogs appear before the mid 1990's. They've really boomed since about 1999.

[PiTBuLL200416]

So From Lets Say About The 70's When Fight Ing Dogs Had To Stop To Now You Don't Think Thats Enough Time To Produce 80 To 100 Pound Apbt's.

[miakoda]

So From Lets Say About The 70's When Fight Ing Dogs Had To Stop To Now You Don't Think Thats Enough Time To Produce 80 To 100 Pound Apbt's.
I never ever even saw these monstor dogs throughout the 1980's. Even in the 80's the APBT was still a not very "popular" dog meaning that they weren't as wide spread as they are now & there were a lot fewer numbers. Like I said, the first overly large "pit bull" I saw was in the early 1990's. That's also about the time that certain groups of people began to use these dogs more as fashion accessories to make them look cool & boost cd sales. JMO.

Pitbull, also take into mind that there are several wellknown "pit bulls", such as Whopper & several dogs in the Camelot lines, that are known APBT/mastiff/Bourdeaux mixes--their owners never tried to hide it & publicly stated they made the cross to get the size.

[WWII]

Choppa-All you want is the name pit bull for the dogs you like. Take the name and be happy. Me and the rest of the members here know what we have and don't care what they are called. When it comes down to it, our dogs can show what they're true colors are, no matter what they are called.

[14rock]

This thread has been closed. Theres no sense trying to educate close-minded people. They will never accept the truth when there is so much money, notoreity,and fame to gain in their circles with these dogs!