what's good together and what's not and why?

[Hillbilly Pit]

I have heard alot of diff. B-lines on here truefuly i don't know any back ground. My friend tha as been around these dogs all hes life and worked them to told me that the lines i need to werey about was ( Carver,Cowboy,Colby,Himpill,Sorona,Eli,Wilder,and one more that he couldn't think of. ) my Q's are: 1)what makes a good pair? 2)what do you as an individual look for in the line and give me the truth even if you have to PM me? 3)when you breed what happens to the puppies,is it for friends, family or to replace some dogs that has past? 4)if there is two lines that are not good together what makes them uncomepatbul? 5)what dose it take to have a good keenl 6)what dose the other breeds that are taked about have that these and other less talk about breeds don't? 7)what makes a good dogmane? I ask these Q's like i said to get the trueth and so i can be as good as i can in thes breed and some day be as good as some you. her is a quote " if you don't have big dreams tomarrow is just another day. "

Use the spell check...before posting! ~Texasbulldogs~

[LadyRampage]

WOW... thats a whole lot of questions...lol

#1. What makes a good pair? Welll your going to get tons of different answers because everyone thinks/feels differently. I think a good pair is a male and female that have strengths and weakness that offset each other and when put together make a dog that is better than the pair that produced it.

#2. What do you look for in a line? Personally I've worked with several different lines before settling on what I'm working with now simply because its what I like. One line might have passed on traits I didn't like, or I just didn't like the dog itself. I just kept looking for what I liked until I have my dogs today.

#3. When you breed what happens to the puppies? Well we don't do alot of breedings, but when we do most stay here, a few are farmed out to close friends, and occasionally with big litters we might sell one, although these days its rare. I'd rather send them to live with a responsible dogman/woman instead of getting cash and not knowing if they are going to end up in the hands of an idiot.

#4. If there are 2 lines that are not good together what makes them not work? This could be a variety of things from undesired traits being dominate in the pups, making the pups not up to the same standards or better than the parents. We did a colby/mt.man breeding once that I hated. Both parents were outstanding dogs, but the mix just didn't work. They were ok dogs, just not equal to their parents.

#5. What does it take to have good kennel? An honest love for the dogs, and the realization that you will not make any money off these dogs. You have to be all about the dogs, the betterment of the breed, and be responsible as an owner. Not to mention have a thick skin at times when someone bashes you about the breed of dog you own. Honesty goes along way, although sometimes its in short supply.

Ok I don't have time to finish out the questions but I'll try and get back to them in a bit... although the How to be a good dogman question is really covered in #5...

[Texasbulldogs]

1)what makes a good pair?
Consistency!

2)what do you as an individual look for in the line and give me the truth even if you have to PM me?
Consistency, high percentages, and traits I prefer, proven track record!

3)when you breed what happens to the puppies,is it for friends, family or to replace some dogs that has past?
Solely depends on the “breeder” in question.

4)if there is two lines that are not good together what makes them uncomepatbul?
Genetics

5)what dose it take to have a good keenl
Knowledge, a competitive drive, and desire along with a great eye for a dog…placing dogs in proper hands also helps.

6)what dose the other breeds that are taked about have that these and other less talk about breeds don't?
Other breeds?

7)what makes a good dogmane?
Desire, eye, and above all else the dogs!

[CB]

1)what makes a good pair?
Consistency!

2)what do you as an individual look for in the line and give me the truth even if you have to PM me?
Consistency, high percentages, and traits I prefer, proven track record!

3)when you breed what happens to the puppies,is it for friends, family or to replace some dogs that has past?
Solely depends on the “breeder” in question.

4)if there is two lines that are not good together what makes them uncomepatbul?
Genetics

5)what dose it take to have a good keenl
Knowledge, a competitive drive, and desire along with a great eye for a dog…placing dogs in proper hands also helps.

6)what dose the other breeds that are taked about have that these and other less talk about breeds don't?
Other breeds?

7)what makes a good dogmane?
Desire, eye, and above all else the dogs!Great post and answers those questions were in the back of my mind to.

[Suki]

2)what do you as an individual look for in the line and give me the truth even if you have to PM me?
Consistency, high percentages, and traits I prefer, proven track record!


Excuse my ignorance, as well, but in regards to consistency,and high percentages, what exactly are you referring to?

I try to read up on all the lines=it's facinating, actually, what you all have to say. But, for instance, does one line excel in any particular area, than another? And, what makes an individual choose one line over another?
Personally, I've never had any particular favorites, but then, my knowledge of specific lines is severely limited.
any help is appreciated, as I'm always learning. Tx in advance.
raised rotties for over 15 years, and well, ...
a rottie, is a rottie.

[simms]

C'mon Suki....even the Rottwieler has lines to compare with ...LOL

[Suki]

C'mon Suki....even the Rottwieler has lines to compare with ...LOL
ok, badly worded!!!:D
so!
back to the point, in regards to "pit bulls". What differenciates one line from another?
go ahead and bash me! I can take it!!!!;)

[Defend2DaEnd]

what lady rampage and texasbulldog said.

I dont know a lot about bloodlines so here is what I can tell you.

1)what makes a good pair?

A good pair would be a female and male who have exceled at something and have titles in their lines. A good pair is one that would keep the original purpose of the breed going. A good pair would be one breed for the same reason. Not color,size or money. But for the betterment of the breed.

3)when you breed what happens to the puppies,is it for friends, family or to replace some dogs that have passed?

I have never bred.

4)if there is two lines that are not good together what makes them uncompatible?

Outcrossing game dogs (real APBTs) to bluffs in not a compatible mix.

5)what does it take to have a good kennel?

The want to better the breed by keeping it's original purpose in mind. Screening all possible owners and making sure they are equiped to handle the dog breed in question. Screening all the dogs you plan to breed for possible health defects so that your dogs are not passing on genetic defects. Not breeding dogs that are to far out of standard (such as this breed for human aggression or 90 pounds on a 24 inch frame). Not overbreeding, which would mean one or two litters a year, if that. Make sure that there is room for pups that may come back to you. Plan to keep at least half or more of the pups. If you plan to have a kennel participate in some kind of rescue, that way you are giving back to the PB community. Don't breed a dog that doesn't deserve to be bred. Don't breed a dog that doesn't deserve to be bred. : ) Keep a clean and tidy environment. i remember working for a kennel that had dirty pens and not a lot of people took puppies home because she didn't have enough help. (Cleaning pens wasn't my job exercising the dogs was).

6)what dose the other breeds that are taked about have that these and other less talk about breeds don't?

Don't really understand this?

7)what makes a good dogman?

I am still learning what makes a breeder a good dog man.

[simms]

ok, badly worded!!!:D
so!
back to the point, in regards to "pit bulls". What differenciates one line from another?
go ahead and bash me! I can take it!!!!;)
No actualy, I respect your points and your ability to debate. So, no bashing....LOL

[Texasbulldogs]

Excuse my ignorance, as well, but in regards to consistency,and high percentages, what exactly are you referring to?
Consistency – consistent in producing what you want in a working canine
High Percentage – Higher the better in regards to the dogs that work out versus don’t.

But, for instance, does one line excel in any particular area, than another?
Yes

And, what makes an individual choose one line over another?
Their vision of the “ideal” dog and traits they prefer…though some just go with the “flavor of the month”.

[DryCreek]

My friend tha as been around these dogs all hes life and worked them to told me that the lines i need to werey about was ( Carver,Cowboy,Colby,Himpill,Sorona,Eli,Wilder,and one more that he couldn't think of.


What reason did he give for being wary about these bloodlines?

[RiotDog]

Maybe he meant " worry" about, as in take notice of ...?

[SFK]

There is a HUGE difference between a dogman & a breeder. Some are both, but it's hard to excell at one or the other without dedicating an unbelievable amount of time to them. There is no exact science to these dogs. I don't think there ever will be. All I know is the more you put into them the more you'll get out. I don't think a lot of people who want to be successful with these dogs look at the big picture. Say you take a great bitch. You hook her up to what you think will be the best suited stud for what you want. 2 years go by to find out the breeding was not to your liking. Now say after that breeding (on her next heat) you breed her to another top-flite male. So then you have 6 or so months to see how that breeding turns out. So on & so forth. Now that's just dealing with one gyp! Try to look at it from the perspective of building a family of dogs. It can get overwhelming very easily. Now what about the pups? If you don't have the room & money to raise them all yourself to see how they turn out? You farm them out or give them to good people who's opinion you trust. If you just sell them then how do you know your program is working? What if you sell all the great ones? The key is taking baby steps. Always remember you are responsible for the care & condition of all the dogs you feed. You expect the world of them, so you should expect the same from yourself.Now if your not ready to undertake this whole new reality, it's better to just be a fancier of the breed. Own a couple of bulldogs as pets help to maintain the positive image of the breed. Educate yourself on the breeds history. Be an ambassador. Then when you're ready to take the plunge; you'll at least know how to tread water.

[DEACON ROM]

i think that supporting clubs, shows, signing/passing on petitions, anything that puts money in the hands of the people with the "know how" to fight bans and look out for the breed as a whole should also be mentioned.

[tommy3]

There is a HUGE difference between a dogman & a breeder. Some are both, but it's hard to excell at one or the other without dedicating an unbelievable amount of time to them. There is no exact science to these dogs. I don't think there ever will be. All I know is the more you put into them the more you'll get out. I don't think a lot of people who want to be successful with these dogs look at the big picture. Say you take a great bitch. You hook her up to what you think will be the best suited stud for what you want. 2 years go by to find out the breeding was not to your liking. Now say after that breeding (on her next heat) you breed her to another top-flite male. So then you have 6 or so months to see how that breeding turns out. So on & so forth. Now that's just dealing with one gyp! Try to look at it from the perspective of building a family of dogs. It can get overwhelming very easily. Now what about the pups? If you don't have the room & money to raise them all yourself to see how they turn out? You farm them out or give them to good people who's opinion you trust. If you just sell them then how do you know your program is working? What if you sell all the great ones? The key is taking baby steps. Always remember you are responsible for the care & condition of all the dogs you feed. You expect the world of them, so you should expect the same from yourself.Now if your not ready to undertake this whole new reality, it's better to just be a fancier of the breed. Own a couple of bulldogs as pets help to maintain the positive image of the breed. Educate yourself on the breeds history. Be an ambassador. Then when you're ready to take the plunge; you'll at least know how to tread water.
Great post SFK.
That is where I am at right now (the highlighted part of the post). I am not at the point where I am knowledgable enough to breed. Therefore, I feel that it is best to keep dogs to learn on and not breed them. I feel that it is best to learn all I can and be an ambassador for now. After a few years, maybe then I will feel that I can truly produce dogs that will benefit the breed.
Hopefully, some people will take note of your post and realize that it is best to wait it out and produce exceptional dogs in the future than creating subpar dogs now while you don't know crap. There is too many out there as is.

[Hillbilly Pit]

sorry all for the spelling. but it was "worry about". also in Q #6 it was suppose to have been blood lines. sorry again. to DryCreeks Q "what did he say" i didn't get a chance to ask him. but i will and will reply back. it seems ever time i talk to him that is all i talk about. i bet he thinks thats all i call or go see him for is about dogs. but sense i've been here on the site dogs is about all i study. my wife thinks i'm crazy to.

[Hillbilly Pit]

i think that supporting clubs, shows, signing/passing on petitions, anything that puts money in the hands of the people with the "know how" to fight bans and look out for the breed as a whole should also be mentioned.
I would like to that. but i can't go as far and do as much as others can. but what ever i can do i'm willing to do that.

[Hillbilly Pit]

Great post SFK.
That is where I am at right now (the highlighted part of the post). I am not at the point where I am knowledgable enough to breed. Therefore, I feel that it is best to keep dogs to learn on and not breed them. I feel that it is best to learn all I can and be an ambassador for now. After a few years, maybe then I will feel that I can truly produce dogs that will benefit the breed.
Hopefully, some people will take note of your post and realize that it is best to wait it out and produce exceptional dogs in the future than creating subpar dogs now while you don't know crap. There is too many out there as is.
I'm not there by far ether. my wife talks about "when can we have puppies" i tell her that we can't just have puppies becouse she thinks there cute or to make money.also i tell her it's going to be a while (like years) be for we do.

[Suki]

Excuse my ignorance, as well, but in regards to consistency,and high percentages, what exactly are you referring to?
Consistency – consistent in producing what you want in a working canine
High Percentage – Higher the better in regards to the dogs that work out versus don’t.

But, for instance, does one line excel in any particular area, than another?
Yes

And, what makes an individual choose one line over another?
Their vision of the “ideal” dog and traits they prefer…though some just go with the “flavor of the month”.

TY! I am still VERY much learning.

[Hillbilly Pit]

My friend tha as been around these dogs all hes life and worked them to told me that the lines i need to werey about was ( Carver,Cowboy,Colby,Himpill,Sorona,Eli,Wilder,and one more that he couldn't think of.


What reason did he give for being wary about these bloodlines?
I talked to my friend about why those blood lines and he said that those lines have been around for longer than he has been alive and that they would be around long after me and him are gone. also these lines are good anough to put there name on them so there rep. is on the line, and he hasn't heard of most of the new lines that are around. I look at these lines as Old School. the lines like Zebo and Jeep i have heard of just in conversation like "my buddy's got a Zebo dog it's bad to the bone" that's all.

[NOVICE]

Keep thinkin the way your thinkin Hillbilly, it's a good attitude. BTW there's alot more good lines than just those.

[Hillbilly Pit]

is there dog men that you can go to that if you pay them or ask them to teach you the tricks of the trade that they will?but these are not just any joe blow off the street. these are people that have learned from the people that has there last name on a blood line.

[Hillbilly Pit]

describe the part of genetics, is it there bones or them being crazy?

[ghost 1]

good job TX and SFK,,,both post i find to be very truthfull and striaght to the point,,,to own several of these dogs take a ungodly amount of time and money,,more than u could ever get out of the litter, you got to be in it for the love of the breed, the more time you put into it, the better the outcome will be

[Suki]

I would like to that. but i can't go as far and do as much as others can. but what ever i can do i'm willing to do that.
I think that as long as you can be a representative for this breed, in a positive way, that being, licience, vaccinate, train, socialize=show their best trait=people friendly, clean up after, etc, then that is one more positive step, one more mind, that perhaps you have changed, by being responsible and being held accountable, that will help to better serve the image of this breed. Trust me, my friend, THAT is doing MUCH!!!! And the meer fact that you are even willing, and wanting, says it all....:)
We need true ambassadors for this breed. Nothing less....

[Hillbilly Pit]

I have said that i was try to get papers on my dog J.R. but i don't think that i be able to get them. so i realy don't know what he is made of for sure. because the other bybs didn't keep good or any records at all. if they did i whould have my single registration form back by now. can people forge that kind of stuff like names and blood lines i was told that it was easey? so i am kind of thinking of haveing him cut. what is the time line on geting him cut from when to when? also can i put him pulls if he has no papers and cut if that matters (cut).

[Hillbilly Pit]

I think that as long as you can be a representative for this breed, in a positive way, that being, licience, vaccinate, train, socialize=show their best trait=people friendly, clean up after, etc, then that is one more positive step, one more mind, that perhaps you have changed, by being responsible and being held accountable, that will help to better serve the image of this breed. Trust me, my friend, THAT is doing MUCH!!!! And the meer fact that you are even willing, and wanting, says it all....:)
We need true ambassadors for this breed. Nothing less....
thanks Suki I appreciate it!

[Suki]

thanks Suki I appreciate it!
ANY time!:D


one mind in favor of, is better than
one mind NOT in favor of....

[Hillbilly Pit]

what dose a dog/puppy from good lines coast?

[Hillbilly Pit]

what dose a dog/puppy from good lines coast?
see even the webmaster thought those were crazy. now a straight answer please. also the Q's in reply #'s 22, 23,and 26 thanks.

[14rock]

A good dog can cost you anywhere from nothing to thousands of dollars just to bring it onto your yard.

I dont understand post #23 as to what your asking?

#22-You can call up breeders of a line of dogs your intrested in and pick their brains, let them know you are just doing some studying and wanted to learn from the man who knows their blood best. Dont expect them to just cough up answers to anybody and everybody, it will be difficult to get good info out of some dogmen, and some will run their mouths about their line to anyone who will listen.

#26-I believe you can do Limited Registration with the Adba with a neutered/un papered dog for shows and such. I'm sure there are other groups that will do the same. I know the topic has been covered before, if you run a search you should be able to find it after some digging.

[Saiyagin]

is there dog men that you can go to that if you pay them or ask them to teach you the tricks of the trade that they will?but these are not just any joe blow off the street. these are people that have learned from the people that has there last name on a blood line.
If you want to learn from a real dog man its not about paying them its about earning there TRUST. Like the saying you wanna play with the big boys you gotta get your feet wet first.

[LadyRampage]

Another note... A true dogman will let you know the possible weakness in a pup as well as the strengths... why do I say that? Because every line has strengthens and weaknesses and anyone who says they have the "ultimate" pup with everything is either a liar, trying to make a sale, or just not smart enough to know any better.

Now a true dogman will think his dogs are the best, and he should, he's the one feeding them and what everyone else thinks doesn't mean a thing.

[Hillbilly Pit]

A good dog can cost you anywhere from nothing to thousands of dollars just to bring it onto your yard.

I dont understand post #23 as to what your asking?

#22-You can call up breeders of a line of dogs your intrested in and pick their brains, let them know you are just doing some studying and wanted to learn from the man who knows their blood best. Dont expect them to just cough up answers to anybody and everybody, it will be difficult to get good info out of some dogmen, and some will run their mouths about their line to anyone who will listen.

#26-I believe you can do Limited Registration with the Adba with a neutered/un papered dog for shows and such. I'm sure there are other groups that will do the same. I know the topic has been covered before, if you run a search you should be able to find it after some digging.
the areganel Q was ( if there is two lines that aren't good together what makes them uncomepatbul? ) Texasbulldogs said "genetics" dose that mean that the pups will come out crazy or there bones will be deformed? thats what i ment by #23.