castration

[Crash97]

What effect does castration have on a bulldog. Does it slow down it's drive to fight? I would assume it has no effect on gameness, since thats not hormone driven. But neither is it's fighting drive.(IMO).... This is all academic basically, but want answers. Thanx

[GrChPitBitch]

What effect does castration have on a bulldog. Does it slow down it's drive to fight? I would assume it has no effect on gameness, since thats not hormone driven. But neither is it's fighting drive.(IMO).... This is all academic basically, but want answers. Thanx
I have a male that was castrated
In my opinion, he isnt as driven... More laid back... lazier.... He wont scratch for me anymore...

[BDK]

why would you even consider that option lol hurts just to think bout that man dont breed him if you dont want but dont cut em off ouch ouch ouch lol

[Crash97]

Like I said I was just curious as to the effects. Wanted to hear y'alls experience. No I'm not gonna lop 'em off. lol... Only one I got's a female anyway.

[J M A N]

A dog could be triple inbred game, game, game and u cut off his balls and he becomes a curr. Testosterone is the drive behind the game and u take that away and the dog has no desire to confront another. As I have never done this to one of my own pits.......i've seen others who have...

[Gypsy]

Poor Poor dog.lol One of the draw backs i know of is after being "fixed" they gain weight and their backs get flat.It looks really unhealthy in my neighbors dogs. They have to weigh 100lbs plus.

[GrChPitBitch]

why would you even consider that option lol hurts just to think bout that man dont breed him if you dont want but dont cut em off ouch ouch ouch lol
A hog in a hunt got my males balls..... not me... LOL

[æSDKæ]

A hog in a hunt got my males balls..... not me... LOL
In that case you should pick him up, immediately!!!

[Crash97]

Thanks for the info.

[GrChPitBitch]

In that case you should pick him up, immediately!!!
Oh yes, of course!! It was too late of course... but.....:(

Here is a couple pictures of that male... He is my Moms dogs... I dont care much for the piss-on-the-floor-every-time-you-move-too-fast pussy pit bulls.. which he is... LOL My mom loves him... So....


When you take the balls, you take the game, thats for damned sure.....
and yes, their backs do get flat, and they get really fat if your not carefull!!

[miakoda]

bump. Interesting question. Would like to see some thoughts on this as well.

[findrodhere]

What do you guys mean by, "their backs go flat"?

[Pitbullgirl]

I had my boy neutered when he was about 8 months old. Nothing has changed about him at all. We did it because we had NO plans to breed him, I didn't want to worry about him trying to get loose on us when the females go into heat. We didn't want to add to all the unwanted, abused Pitties out there. He is fine, has no affect on him at all. I will say he doesn't hump dogs anymore, that has stopped!

[Verderben]

I have only had one male neutered and will never do it again. The poor dog looks like a walking table. And yes he still gets exercise and the poor thing is down to ONE cup of "light" dog food a day He is always hungry . The female we had spayed . Same thing blew up like a blimp and no matter what we do we cant get the weight off her. Same thing for my moms dog. I will never do it again thats for sure.

[juiicybubbles]

my male got his balls cut off... he didnt get fat.. he just got more friendly towards people and dogs... he only shows aggression when he feels some one is going to hurt me... i dont care about the rest of the family only me..

nothing has changed he still always wants to go play or run... hes not lazy at all

[rocksteady]

Yep, have had lots of dogs spayed /neutered. In all truth, hunting dogs are even better when fixed! (Allthough its hard to continue a line lol) (Im talking about hunting as in hogs,bird dogs, ect..) Even makes a difference in racehorses.. geldings can race longer, arent bothered as much if at all by females..

IMO getting them fixed doesnt affect their pet quality one way..makes them better pets.
the getting fat, etc are all wise tails.

As for other reasons..cant show a fixed dog and it does cut back on the testosterone

[Iverson's Pits]

thats...."Wives Tales" :)



Yep, have had lots of dogs spayed /neutered. In all truth, hunting dogs are even better when fixed! (Allthough its hard to continue a line lol) (Im talking about hunting as in hogs,bird dogs, ect..) Even makes a difference in racehorses.. geldings can race longer, arent bothered as much if at all by females..

IMO getting them fixed doesnt affect their pet quality one way..makes them better pets.
the getting fat, etc are all wise tails.

As for other reasons..cant show a fixed dog and it does cut back on the testosterone

[rocksteady]

Ive always heard it wise tale.. never heard 'wives" tale until just now

[findrodhere]

What would be the premier age to neuter a dog? I know it's not 8 weeks like all the armchair vets at the dog park preach.

[rocksteady]

Yes, you can neuter at 8 weeks and theres nothing wrong with it. I know some excellent vets who've been neutering and spaying at 8 weeks for years.. I wouldnt call them arm chair. the idea is the sooner the better.. no need to wait until 6 months. With females there are other reasons to wait longer.. but I think we are getting off topic here. Do a search on spay/ neutering because there are lots of posts on it..

[Pitbullgirl]

My vet told me the absolute longest to wait to get them neutered would be 11-12 months old. But the sooner, the better.

[findrodhere]

So your saying that by castrating the dog at 8 weeks will have no affect on how the dog grows physically? I don't know about the whole 'wives tales' comment, castrate a boy at 6 years old and see how he turns out.

[ABK]

I had a bulldog neutered at 2 years & it did not change him one bit. We sold several APBT pups that were fixed between the ages of 12 weeks & 7 mos & never had a problem.

As for 8 week altering, it can be done, shelters all over the U.S. do it every day. I myself prefer to wait until they're about 12 weeks to have it done. Altering before 6 mos is called "juvenile" spay/neuter & IMO it's better than waiting until they're 6 mos. I've had both done & the juvenile procedure has less stress, less cost & faster recovery time. You should check it out. Maybe those "arm chair" folks might actually know a few things! lol. ;)

[Pitbullgirl]

I don't think you will find a vet that will castrate a dog if he is 6 years old. It makes the recovery on the dog more difficult. However, when we were contiplating having our dog done, she did tell us we could wait til he was 8-10 months old but it wouldn't make much of a difference as far as him growing anymore or any less. So I guess, its to each is own. But for the dogs sake, I'd just get him done at 6-8 months old

[findrodhere]

I was speaking about the affects of castration on the body. For example, take 2 identical twin brothers and castrate one at 6 years old and leave the other one intact. By age 16, we're going to see a noticeable difference in one of the boys, that's for sure. So you've robbed one child of an extremely important hormone, will there be a difference in him physically as he grows up?


"Increases obesity
Intact rats eat less food and have a lower percentage of body fat than castrated rats. Specifically, intact rats eat 17% less food and they have 5% less body fat than castrated males (Drori and Folman 1976)." (http://www.ratbehavior.org/Neutering.htm)
Here's a study about neutering, it deals mainly with rats, but should clear some 'old wives tales' up.

When I speak of 'armchair vets', I speak of people who are not vets, yet believe they know what's right for everyone else's dog.

[14rock]

I cant speak on behalf of neutered bulldogs...but I did have my Schipperke (RIP) neutered late in life. I believe he was somewhere around 3-4 years old. No problems what so ever, and it didnt change him one bit. I know hog hunters actually prefer a neutered dog so they focus on the hog and not eachother and can hunt in groups with multiple dogs. Really though, I dont know. I spay the females and have yet to see lethargy or weight gain, still the same dogs they were before the op....just dont have to worry about bleeding and other dogs going nuts around "heat" time. My 2 cents on it all.

[ABK]

I can assure you rats, humans & dogs are not the same. The only reason an altered dog gets fat is b/c it's fed too much & not walked enough & I as mentioned before, I have had pit bulls that were altered as young as 12 weeks & as old as 2 years. I saw no difference in males, but females that were altered young did have a more masculine appearance than females that were altered when they were older. Other than that no difference, save that the altered dogs were healthier, less of a problem & would live longer.

[findrodhere]

How can you see any difference in a dog, unless you have something to compare it to? And once the dog is neutered, you've got nothing to compare it to.

[Iverson's Pits]

There Is Absolutely No Scientific Proof In This......but....i Think That Spaying A Female At A Very Young Age Alters The Way She Will Grow Up. Judging From What I've Seen, I Think Not Having All The "female" Parts Messes With The "estrogen" Or Whatever Dogs Have That Make Females Look More Feminen. I Think Spayed Puppies Grow Up To Look More Like Males, Or Have A More Masculine Appearance Due To Lack Of....whatever. Anyone With Me On That One :)

[ABK]

Rod: If you have had dogs neutered at an older age (as I have) you can compare the dog against itself (i.e. before neuter/after neuter).

Iverson: You are right. Juvenile spay will result in a more "masculine" bitch. But I've not seen it affect males in any way. The dogs were just as "doggy" & the bitches were little more "doggy" then they would have been. But as long as a butch bitch doesn't bother you then no harm, no foul, right? ;)

(I am kidding BTW, while a juvenile spayed bitch is a little more "masculine" looking, the changes are negligible.)

[findrodhere]

ABK: You can't go back in time to rob him of the hormone and then see what he will grow up to look like; you point is null.

[ABK]

ABK: You can't go back in time to rob him of the hormone and then see what he will grow up to look like; you point is null.*sigh* Neutering does not affect physical characteristics in male dogs, so that point is null. A intact male & a neutered male look virtually the same.

I have had pit bulls neutered at 12 weeks. I have had pit bulls neutered at 2 years. At the same time I also owned intact pit bulls. There was no change in weight, behaviour, etc. in the 3 groups save that the altered dogs were healthier, less of a problem & would live longer<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->.

[findrodhere]

So testosterone has no effect on a growing dog?
I thought it controlled the closing of the growth plates.

You spelled "achieved" wrong in your sig.

[SEAL]

im pretty sure in a female spay they remove the uterus and if i remeber biology correctly that shouldnt change any harmones. the flat back thing is a new one for me and ive heard about the getting fat but id blame some of that on owner/doggy down time after the surgery. I have had all my dogs fixed and never had ne problems or regrets in comparison to intact animals. friends male is intact and personally i dont like mine marking and hiking his damn leg up on every object he can find.

[ABK]

So testosterone has no effect on a growing dog?
I thought it controlled the closing of the growth plates.

You spelled "achieved" wrong in your sig.So far as I know, no. Intact males & neutered males look virtually the same. In fact, it has been found that the removal of hormonal influences actually delay the closure of growth plates, resulting in a bigger dogs, although the increase in size was in fractions of inches.

Maybe this link will help: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1625&articleid=911


And thanks for the spelling pointer. :)

[miakoda]

Since we are off topic here, well, here goes:

I don't think you will find a vet that will castrate a dog if he is 6 years old. Wrong. In fact, it's never to old to neuter/spay an animal (unless it's like 15 or 16 & has outlived it's lifespan). The reason why is b/c as they age, the risk for problems like pyometra, testicular cancer, prostate enlargement, prostate cancer, perianal tumors (which rarely can be removed b/c of the risk of cutting muscles that will leave the dog incontinent) dramatically increases as much as 70% or more, so it's best to alter them anyways as they get older. Most pyometras in female dogs occur over the age of 7--so why have a dog you love die early all b/c you didn't want to fix her even though she's past the age of breeding? And as for males, prostate problems also occur very often over the age of 6, so again, the health benefits outweigh the risk of early death no matter the age the dog is altered.

As for whether or not a neutered male will be much smaller than an intact one, I don't know b/c no one I've met so far can tell the difference b/n my intact animals & altered animals. I can achieve the same conditioning status in both. And I do know in horses that geldings run bigger than stallions so....

As for the o.p.'s question, I don't know. I know I have 5 catch dogs that are fixed, 3 were fixed before the age of 6 mo. & they perform just as well, if not better than the intact dogs (plus you can hunt with them at any time instead of having to take time of for a female's heat cycle or worry about your intact male becoming focused on a bitch in heat a mile away instead of the task at hand). I don't think altering an animal affects it's animal aggression whatsoever nor have I experienced in different level of performance (in hog hunting). As for the testosterone level arguement, well females don't have near the levels of male dogs anyways, so how would that affect it?

[findrodhere]

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html It's not very long, but it is informative.

[ABK]

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html It's not very long, but it is informative.That article is about juvenile spay/neuter. A juvenile spay/neuter is not the same as a regular spay/neuter.

If you would like to learn more about juvenile spay/neuter, see the link below:

http://www.danesonline.com/earlyspayneuter.htm

Spaying or neutering a working dog will not hurt it. In fact, many ppl prefer a working dog that is altered.

[lockjaw]

leave them on..he needs something to lick every once in the while..lol

[findrodhere]

Can you explain the difference to me?

The site you sent me to does not clearly state the difference between juvenile and regular spay/neuter.

[ABK]

Can you explain the difference to me?

The site you sent me to does not clearly state the difference between juvenile and regular spay/neuter.
Juvenile neuter is done around 8 weeks. A regular neuter is done around 6 mos.

Again, here is a good link about juvenile neuters:

http://www.danesonline.com/earlyspayneuter.htm

[Riptora]

IMO, young neuters are better. They heal super fast and are usually less likely to injure themselves, they bleed much, much less and they need less drugs. We did pups at 8wks at the shelter, at the hospital they had to be 6 months. It depends on the vet.

I know that many, many protection dogs are neutered (especially in law enforcement) because it increases their drive. The reason being that they are less distracted by the desire to procreate. They are much more focussed on work. Hunting dogs I think would have the same effect, but I don't know about the gameness. I think it would be the same, the drive of prey should be stronger and the drive of defense would be as well if it is the same in protection work. I always thought bitches were more brutal in both hunting and other drives, they certainly don't have balls.

[findrodhere]

Great sites, but horribly biased, the health of the dog is not their main concern, it's pet overpopulation. The only reason vets and shelters are advocating neutering dogs so early, is because the owners can't be trusted to keep their dogs from roaming.

[ABK]

Great sites, but horribly biased, the health of the dog is not their main concern, it's pet overpopulation. The only reason vets and shelters are advocating neutering dogs so early, is because the owners can't be trusted to keep their dogs from roaming.
If the health of the dog isn't their main concern then why did the focus on all the diseases altering prevented?

As for pet overpopulation, is this not a concern to you? http://americanbeagler.huntingboards.com/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:emoticon(':shock:'))

[pokey26_f]

What would be a good age to have my female altered at? She is 5 months old now. I was told I should wait until she is 6 to 10 months old.

[ABK]

What would be a good age to have my female altered at? She is 5 months old now. I was told I should wait until she is 6 to 10 months old.
Most vets like to wait until 6 mos., but if you find a vet who does juvenile s/n you can have it done any time you like.

[miakoda]

What would be a good age to have my female altered at? She is 5 months old now. I was told I should wait until she is 6 to 10 months old.
Go ahead & schedule the appointment now. You want to have her spayed before she comes into heat which can be anywhere b/n 6 mo. & 12 mo. but most often around 8-9mo. Once she comes into heat that first time, due to the hormone changes within her body, her risk of cancer, mainly mammary cancer, is increased by 30%--so you want to make sure that doesn't happen.

And thank you for being a responsible pet owner. :)

[Riptora]

Again, if I knew I wanted my dog altered while it was that young I would do it very young for the reasons I listed earlier. Still get the blood checked for unussual conditions, find a vet that is dedicated and will do it at a young age. There is far less bleeding in females especially if you get them done before their first heat and especially before they have a litter. The vets that I worked with who preferred younger spays/neuters were the best vets I knew.

As with anything in the medical field this is a big topic in vet medicine and is based on Dr. preference, I most definately prefer young alterations. The surgeries themselves are also very quick. I don't know why anyone would want to wait.

[pokey26_f]

i know this is off the subject, but when is a good time to have her rabies shot done. 1 vet told me 4 months and another told me 6 months. I just wish they could all agree on one specific age.

[miakoda]

I am NOT a fan of spays done at 12 weeks of before. There have been a lot of recent studies that show that females altered at this age or earlier have a much higher risk of incontinence later in life & experience far more UTI's throughout their life. The research of course is still ongoing but these are the preliminary findings. However, that's only 3 mo. of age, so most wait till after that anyways. As for the males, they have found no such adverse effects in them so...." get r done". ;)

[miakoda]

i know this is off the subject, but when is a good time to have her rabies shot done. 1 vet told me 4 months and another told me 6 months. I just wish they could all agree on one specific age.
In LA the law is to do it at 3 mo. I'd opt for 4 mo. over 6 mo.

[Riptora]

Some vets like to stick with a certain schedule of vacs so that they are all spaced out. They have to be at least 12 weeks old for rabies and a certain weight (I think it's 3lbs), by law, otherwise the results of a vac are iffy.

[Riptora]

As far as the incontinence thing, another debate in the vet field. I think age has nothing to do with it (through my own beliefs and those of the best vets I worked with) I think that has nothing to do with the animals ability to control it's bladder. I think the connection between spaying and incontinence is the method of the spay. There are different ways to pull out a uterus and cut it off, the good way is the best and avoids injuries to other organs. Some vets (unfortunately like one I used once) use only an insturment called a spay hook to get the uterus out and leave a very small incission (a sign to tell which method they used) if they leave a small incission and used the spay hook too much, I just don't see how they could have NOT caused trauma to the bladder and the muscles around it. That's my theorie. Luckily the vets I worked with at the shelter were great and did not over-use the insturments.

[findrodhere]

I do worry about pet overpopulation, ABK. Not my own, though. It'll be a cold day in hell when my dog gets to run free to mate with whomever he should choose.

"In addition, when considering cancer, there is another study of 3218 dogs that showed that dogs that were neutered before a year of age had a significantly increased chance of developing bone cancer (Cooley DM, Beranek BC, Schlittler DL, Glickman NW, Glickman LT, Waters D, Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2002 Nov;11(11):1434-40), a cancer that is much more life-threatening than mammary cancer, and which affects both genders. Finally, in another study, unneutered males were significantly less likely than neutered males to suffer cognitive impairment when they were older (Hart BL. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2001 Jul 1;219(1):51-6)." (http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html)


This is my favorite quote, "If a pet dog is going to live with an intelligent, well-informed family that understands the problem of pet overpopulation and can be trusted to keep their dogs under their control at all times and to not breed them, I do not recommend spaying or neutering before 14 months of age." (Chris Zink DVM, PhD, http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html)

[miakoda]

As far as the incontinence thing, another debate in the vet field. I think age has nothing to do with it (through my own beliefs and those of the best vets I worked with) I think that has nothing to do with the animals ability to control it's bladder. I think the connection between spaying and incontinence is the method of the spay. There are different ways to pull out a uterus and cut it off, the good way is the best and avoids injuries to other organs. Some vets (unfortunately like one I used once) use only an insturment called a spay hook to get the uterus out and leave a very small incission (a sign to tell which method they used) if they leave a small incission and used the spay hook too much, I just don't see how they could have NOT caused trauma to the bladder and the muscles around it. That's my theorie. Luckily the vets I worked with at the shelter were great and did not over-use the insturments.
That's why I stated they are "preliminary" findings. ;) It's not necesarily conclusive evidence but just a "wanna let you know" aspect to inform people of some of the could be complications. (btw, I too am a cert. vet. tech.)

[ABK]

I think I saw those studies - in the end they found they had no more incontenence or UTIs than intact dogs. If I find the info I saw I will post it.

But back to the topic, no, neutering should not affect a bulldog's drive or gameness since neither (TMK anyway) is driven by testosterone.

[Riptora]

I know, I just think that it's a load of crap, you just need a good vet. One who doesn't mind sticking their fingers in the animals instead of scraping around with those stupid hooks... sorry, I just think it's common sense and that it shouldn't be such a big mysterie as to why these dogs bladders are screwed up!

[miakoda]

Anyways, we are waaay of topic here so I'm going to repost the question for people to answer here on out:


What effect does castration have on a bulldog. Does it slow down it's drive to fight? I would assume it has no effect on gameness, since thats not hormone driven. But neither is it's fighting drive.(IMO).... This is all academic basically, but want answers. Thanx

[Verderben]

The only reason an altered dog gets fat is b/c it's fed too much & not walked enough
That is absolutely NOT true. Our dogs that are altered are getting practically starved ( One cup of food and the occasional milkbone) and are getting the same amount of excersise as before and they just keep on getting fatter. also I work with dogs and as I dont know what thier daily scheduals are we see far more morbidly obese dogs that are altered than ones who are intact. So no one is going to convince me that altering doesnt make them fat because it does. I have seen it first hand. I see very few altered dogs that are not overweight so I think that not gaining weight is an exception for few dogs while getting obese is more the norm

[Verderben]

There Is Absolutely No Scientific Proof In This......but....i Think That Spaying A Female At A Very Young Age Alters The Way She Will Grow Up. Judging From What I've Seen, I Think Not Having All The "female" Parts Messes With The "estrogen" Or Whatever Dogs Have That Make Females Look More Feminen. I Think Spayed Puppies Grow Up To Look More Like Males, Or Have A More Masculine Appearance Due To Lack Of....whatever. Anyone With Me On That One :)
I agree with you have also read ALOT and heard from a few people that spaying at 8 - 12 weeks CAN cause incontinence issues as well. ( I do not have first hand experience with that though because I do not advocate juvenile spay/neuter and will never do it)

[Verderben]

I know that many, many protection dogs are neutered (especially in law enforcement) because it increases their drive.
I know that is not true. My neighbor trains police dogs and personal protection dogs and we have discussed it many times. He said MOST serious PP people will NOT "clip" a dog because it DECREASES drive. also him and most other trainers he knows wont even bother with training a PP or police dog if it has been altered.

[rocksteady]

I think its a case by case .. most dogs bred or picked for police work have such high drives to begin with, neutering them isnt going to affect them that much. Those with a lower drive it probably would..but needless, most agree that neutering AFTER bite work, etc (usually after 22 months) has little to no effect on their drives. So I think in all honesty it depends on the dog itself in the first place and the age.. So maybe for training, no, they dont like the dog neutered. But after the dog is mature, nuetering doesnt seem to affect them that much.
http://www.realgsd.info/Discuss/discus/16/545.html?997397109
http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/70577/an/0/page/6
You have to read the entrie post to get the full effect I think anyone who's against neutering in the first place will pick the anti neutering side and those gung ho on neutering will pick the other side. I think that its hard to tell what exactly a dog would be like since once its neutered you cannot go back and let him grow up unneutered

As for abulldog.. i have a unneutered dog that has little drive to begin with.

[mikelia]

I work at an animal rescue that focuses on pit bull rescue and I see many older pit bulls neutered and spayed and we see NO difference in the dogs afterwards. No matter the age or whatever. My shepherd bitch was spayed at 5 years and she never got fat or lazy, actually we still had a hard time keeping weight on her.
My pittie is spayed and is in no way lazy or fat, she is your typical, game, high drive, duracell, conditioned pit bull.

[findrodhere]

Good post rocksteady, The first link didn't work for me, though.

Does anyone here believe that if a dog is neutered after 2 years it be more likely to become obese? Or just be fatter than if it weren't neutered?

[Iverson's Pits]

I have two females from the same litter, each over 2 years old that I want to spay, but I too, am worried about them becoming overweight or having complications. I think it might be just as easy for us as responsible owners to keep them away from others when the time comes. Besides, they are on the extreme side of aggressive towards eachother, and I'd like to see if that changes post-alteration. They were raised together and got along great until one turned on. And that happend during the dominant one's heat. Do you think alteration would lessen the aggression. Its not like I would ever leave these two unattended or even off-leash anywhere near eachother...but It'd be nice to see a little less out of these two bulldogbitches who aren't used for hunting now.

[ABK]

I have two females from the same litter, each over 2 years old that I want to spay, but I too, am worried about them becoming overweight or having complications. I think it might be just as easy for us as responsible owners to keep them away from others when the time comes. Besides, they are on the extreme side of aggressive towards eachother, and I'd like to see if that changes post-alteration. They were raised together and got along great until one turned on. And that happend during the dominant one's heat. Do you think alteration would lessen the aggression. Its not like I would ever leave these two unattended or even off-leash anywhere near eachother...but It'd be nice to see a little less out of these two bulldogbitches who aren't used for hunting now.
IMO altering won't help b/c the agrression you see in bulldogs isn't driven by sex hormones.

[miakoda]

Iverson, dogs becoming overweight after a spay/neuter is NOT the norm. I've seen way too many altered animals in my life that were conditioned in ways that people would gawk at them even on this site.

Since we are going "there", before Hurricane Katrina I had Rex neutered for a few reasons: 1. he had some traits (very cowhocked in the back) that I didn't necessarily want to get passed on 2. his demodex was getting out of control & everytime a damn bitch went into heat, there went his fur. But yet, this is what he looked like days before he passed away
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/1/6/2/1/Rexlastpics3.jpg
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/1/6/2/1/oldrexpic.jpg

Mind you, this boy hadn't had his testicles in several months which would've been plenty of time for him to get fat on me. However, when I got him he was a chunk 66lbs. He last weigh in was at 53lbs (although he was still as tall as a miniature horse :rolleyes: )