Question 4 the Blues

[Lailas_DAD]

Hey, Some of you might have seen my cousins pup "Steel", My cousin called me last night, to tell me that he got the papers for "Steel" and sent me to the site to see his Father and mother... the dad is "Truck daddy" and "Blaze"....anyway, he said something that bothered me...he said,"the pups from truck start at 1000 and go up, but he got "Steel" for 300",I was wondering if yall know anything bout this line or this kennel...
http://photos-461.facebook.com/n6/461/n45005100_30068461_967.jpg

[Iverson's Pits]

Could be the runt, could have health problems, skin condtion, possible brain damage from seizures....the list is endless. could be that they couldn't get rid of the pup and were tired of cleaning up after it. I'd have more to offer, but it doesn't look like those "breeders" care much about a standard. If they did, the pup could be under/overshot, easty-westy feet, over done head/chest. But look at some of their younger pups....look at their shoulders. I cant stand that $h!+ ....breeding for genetic defects such as "freakish shoulders" I dont see much that I like on that website. Your brother's pup's mother is tolerable...maybe he should ask the breeder why so cheap?



Hey, Some of you might have seen my cousins pup "Steel", My cousin called me last night, to tell me that he got the papers for "Steel" and sent me to the site to see his Father and mother... the dad is "Truck daddy" and "Blaze"....anyway, he said something that bothered me...he said,"the pups from truck start at 1000 and go up, but he got "Steel" for 300",I was wondering if yall know anything bout this line or this kennel...

[Lailas_DAD]

the reason why he paided three hundred, was because his cousin from his mothers side works for the kennel and was owed a pup, so he got it instead, but for 300...Anyway, He went to the vet the other day and check this out...10 weeks 22.5 pounds...thats a beast, My four month is 29.6 pounds...

[Brothermarree]

I hope those blue eye's go away- it's a fualt. Other than that I'de watch his leg (left) Looks kind of funny in that pic but just may be just standing that way.
GOD BLESS!!!!

[Defend2DaEnd]

I personally don't like any of those dogs. But I hope that boy makes your cousina nice house dog.

[Diesel]

nice looking dogs at any rate.
I think you have a nice looking pup, the only thing that could possible be an issue from what i see is the eyes, but its still pretty young.. they will probably turn. outside of that nice little pup.

[GSDbulldog]

Cute pup you have =)

Because he was bred for color and size, I'd watch the physical structure of your pup. Hips, elbows, etc. Watch the blue eyes too, sometimes they can hold defects (But he's obviously still young, they might change.). Either way, you've got a good lookin' pup on your hands :D

[Lailas_DAD]

Cute pup you have =)

Because he was bred for color and size, I'd watch the physical structure of your pup. Hips, elbows, etc. Watch the blue eyes too, sometimes they can hold defects (But he's obviously still young, they might change.). Either way, you've got a good lookin' pup on your hands :D
Thanks to every one for posting, But could some one please tell me what the blue eyes mean..I want my cuz to have a healthy dog, but if there are any issues, he needs to know them.

[Brothermarree]

Lacks Pigment and can Cause Problems
like with white dogs I belive- Ask around for more Details
BUT he's young so I wouldn't worry about it to long

[Lailas_DAD]

Okay, I will ask around, but I'm sure the knowledge on this board will bless this post and drop some info

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Look, I am sorry to tell you but someone has to do it. Your cousin will have health issues with this dog. When? it could be 2 years or 6 but they will arise. If your cousin is lucky, very lucky, it will only have some minor defects.

Just call it a bully-type dog!

Thanks to every one for posting, But could some one please tell me what the blue eyes mean..I want my cuz to have a healthy dog, but if there are any issues, he needs to know them.

[Lailas_DAD]

thanks rocky....I new something was fishy bout that transaction

[tjpitbull]

So what is the deal with blue eyes? My budy just had a littler and one came out white with blue eyes? Any body knoe why this is not good????Any info would be helpfull.....

[SAM_I_AM]

Ok i totally understand about the blue eyes, but what about gold eyes?

[rocksteady]

Ok i totally understand about the blue eyes, but what about gold eyes?
Gold eyes are normal in red colored dogs. Nothing wrong with them ..occasionaly you'll also see them in a seal or seal brindle dog...

Just because a dog has blue eyes doesnt mean it will have health issues or defects itself !!!!!! HOWEVER

http://www.offa.org/deafgeninfo.html
" Deafness in blue-eyed white cats is common and is known to be passed on as an autosomal dominant defect. Blue eyes, resulting from an absence of pigment in the iris, is common with pigment-associated deafness but is not, in and of itself, an indication of deafness or the presence of a deafness gene; however, in several breeds dogs (Dalmatian, English Setter, English Cocker Spaniel, Bull Terrier) with blue eyes are statistically more likely to be deaf. "

So the possiblity of a blue eyed dog passing a bad gene is more likely than a dog with dark eyes and due to this fact, only a breeder who was unconcerend about the future health of any offspring and ruining a line of dogs would breed.

[Brothermarree]

Your cousin won't neccicarily(sp?) have Probs. - Don't let someone spook you- you might- but he said that becuase he doesn't like that style

[ABK]

No, they said that b/c those dogs are bred for color & size w/ no regard for conformation, health or temperment! Many color-bred blue lines already carry:

Auto immune disorders
Cancer
Chronodyplasia
Elbow dysplasia
Elongated soft palates
Heart valve problems
Hip dysplasia
Skin problems

Among others! I once has a list of 11 health defects found in color-bred blues, although I can't remember them all now.

But when you don't consider conf., health or temperment in your program it's only a matter of time before defects show up. Slowly but surely there showing up & becoming more frequent w/ each passing year. :(

Could someone pls post a ped on Steel? I'd like to see what he's out of.

[Brothermarree]

Doesn't mean that pup will.

[El Mexicano]

Originally Posted by SAM_I_AM
Ok i totally understand about the blue eyes, but what about gold eyes?


i got a brindle dog with gold eyes and nothin wrong with im and last i heard that was actually a good color

[ABK]

Doesn't mean that pup will.Doesn't mean the pup won't either. From what I understand, the pup is off color bred bluffs. As such, this pup is more likely than most to have problems. Now, the pup may turn out to be OK, but the chances of it having problems is markedly higher. I'd definitely have those hips & elbows checked & watch for an elongaged soft palate, since those seem to be giving the most problems w/ bluffs.

As a side note, I wouldn't worry about his eyes. He looks young enough that they'll turn.

[Marinepits]

One of my rescues was obviously "bred" for size. At the age of 4 months he was limping a bit and his elbows were splayed out. When he was "under" for his neutering surgery, we had his hips and elbows x-rayed. Both his hips show mild dysplasia and his left elbow doesn't fit the socket properly. He's 2 years old now and weighs around 100 pounds -- he's a little skinny, too, but we don't want his legs to support too much weight. Poor guy LOVES to pull anything, but we can't let him do it because of the legs issues.

Hopefully you're cousin is thinking of speutering his pup, so maybe they can do x-rays then to see what joint concerns the pup may have.

[Miss Conduct]

the eyes dont look "ice blue", they are a grey enough blue (from the looks of the pic), they might change color. Ive seen pups that had light grey/blue eyes, and none of them kept the color, they all changed.
Eye color doesnt determine health problems, that comes in the genes.... but generally dogs that are bred for color/size (or any other characteristic) will have health probs.
Look at Shar Pei's for example, they are bred solely for wrinkles.. they have so many skin problems it ridiculous....
Not saying your pup is going to, but chances are something may develop down the road, just keep your eye open.

any dog can have health problems (even carefully bred dogs).

[Miss Conduct]

oh, one thing to help w/bone growth, make SURE you put him on puppy LARGE BREED. There are too many nutrients in reg puppy food. Too many nutrients = growth defects.
I saw a Dobie pup that was feed high protein performance food, that poor pup had the most screwed up legs because of it.
Feeding a Large Breed puppy food will still let the pup reach his full size, but it slows the process down, making sure joints/bones fuse properly.

[ABK]

A dog doesn't have to be altered to be checked for dysplasia. The pup can be Penn Hipp'ed at 4 mos. or OFA'd at 2 years. These are seperate examinations that can be done independent of any surgery. I'd recommend the PennHipp. Although more expensive, it can be done at a younger age & is more accurate. Plus, I doubt the owner of "Steel" will wait until he can be OFA'd before breeding the tar out of him. :(

Also, I agree this pup needs to be on large breed puppy food. Regular puppy food will cause him to grown too fast, stressing his bones & joints. However, it doesn't have to be large breed puppy food, adult dog food will do just as well so long as it's a quality feed made for all life stages.

[rocksteady]

.
Eye color doesnt determine health problems, that comes in the genes.... .
Please refer to my above post. Eye color certainly can be linked to deafness...while it doesnt CAUSE it, it is a sign there could be problems
Its also a disqualifying fault in a dog...

[Brothermarree]

True ABK- But if he's not going to work the dog he should neuter it.

[ABK]

Please refer to my above post. Eye color certainly can be linked to deafness...while it doesnt CAUSE it, it is a sign there could be problems
Its also a disqualifying fault in a dog...The cause of both blue eyes & deafness is the same. Blue eyes are caused by lack of pigment in the retina. Congential deafness is caused by a lack of pigment in the inner ear. As such, blue eyes are often an indicator of deafness. Now, not all blue eyed dogs are deaf. I have known many blue or bi-eyed dogs that were not deaf. But blues eyes come in concert w/ deafness frequently enough that vets consider blue eyes a indicator to suspect deafness & most, if not all kennel clubs have made it a fault.

Brothermarree: You're right. But do you see that happening?

[rocksteady]

I double checked, AADR makes no indication of blue eyes while ADBA considered it a major fault

http://www.offa.org/deafgeninfo.html

good info on the white coat /blue eye issues

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Are you referring to those like the ones on my dog (avatar)? If this what you are talking about, they are the best eyes to have (Just my bias opinion):D

I do not know of any sickness linked to this coloration (although red does have some "potential" issues, not enough to compare to blues and white coloration).
Ok i totally understand about the blue eyes, but what about gold eyes?

[devinben3]

the reason why he paided three hundred, was because his cousin from his mothers side works for the kennel and was owed a pup, so he got it instead, but for 300...Anyway, He went to the vet the other day and check this out...10 weeks 22.5 pounds...thats a beast, My four month is 29.6 pounds...
dang that pup is gonna be a biggin. my 4 mth old male pup is apx 18 lbs at 4 mths...and his smaller sister is 15lbs.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Here is quick Genetics for ya:

Our body is composed of two sets up "maps" telling all the parts of the body how to work, etc.

If one set of instructions is "bad" the other set of instructions takes over (other map) and NO DEFECT WILL ARISE.

If both sets of instructions are bad, defects will arise.
If only one set of instructions is bad, no defect will arise.

Example

If Dam has a defect, (both instructions are corrupted)
and Sire has no defect and both sets of instructions are normal,
Offsprings have a very good possibility of turning "normal".

In contrast, if Dam has a defect and Sire has one defective set of instructions, there is a strong possibility of having offsprings with defects.

The above 'plain' explanation can be used to determine probability of your dog having defects.

[Marinepits]

A dog doesn't have to be altered to be checked for dysplasia. The pup can be Penn Hipp'ed at 4 mos. or OFA'd at 2 years. These are seperate examinations that can be done independent of any surgery. I'd recommend the PennHipp. Although more expensive, it can be done at a younger age & is more accurate. Plus, I doubt the owner of "Steel" will wait until he can be OFA'd before breeding the tar out of him. :(

I completely agree with you. My not-so-subtle post was in hopes that Steel's owner WOULD get him neutered before he decided to "breed the tar out of him". If the pup can't pass an OFA, then he shouldn't be bred anyway.

I was lucky enough to work in a vet's office at the time I adopted Mac and we did get him OFA'd because of my work discount and peace-of-mind. (I never had any intention of breeding him but thought I'd get him into pulling). His neutering and OFA just happened to occur around the same time and it was easier to get him x-rayed while "out" because he was NOT cooperative.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

I would add a supplement of Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfate in his diet after he is 12 months. I say after b/c I am unsure of any ill effects this may have on a pup. Those two supplements will aid in the cartilage formation/restoration, flexibility, etc. It is also great for senior dogs and dogs that weight pull.

oh, one thing to help w/bone growth, make SURE you put him on puppy LARGE BREED. There are too many nutrients in reg puppy food. Too many nutrients = growth defects.
I saw a Dobie pup that was feed high protein performance food, that poor pup had the most screwed up legs because of it.
Feeding a Large Breed puppy food will still let the pup reach his full size, but it slows the process down, making sure joints/bones fuse properly.

[Big Papa]

looks cute

[Brothermarree]

Maybe he can do something- His mother didn't look to bad. Looks conformation correct
He could do something if her genes take over.

[ABK]

I completely agree with you. My not-so-subtle post was in hopes that Steel's owner WOULD get him neutered before he decided to "breed the tar out of him". If the pup can't pass an OFA, then he shouldn't be bred anyway.

I was lucky enough to work in a vet's office at the time I adopted Mac and we did get him OFA'd because of my work discount and peace-of-mind. (I never had any intention of breeding him but thought I'd get him into pulling). His neutering and OFA just happened to occur around the same time and it was easier to get him x-rayed while "out" because he was NOT cooperative.Steel is a flashy oversized blue who would normally sell for $1000. I could be totally wrong, but somehow I don't see neutering in his future. Too much $$$ to be made. http://thorstenkaye.com/rolleyes.gif

And yes, I will agree, it is easier to have a dog OFA'd if you're already going to put him out for something else. I just wanted to clarify a tandem surgery wasn't required.

Brothermarree: You're right, but 22lbs at 10 weeks I doubt that he's going to take after momma! Could you pls post a link Steel's info?

Thanks!

[Brothermarree]

ABK? Who is this Steel you speak of?
Truker is this pups father and he's not blue.

[ABK]

ABK? Who is this Steel you speak of?
Truker is this pups father and he's not blue.
Steel is the blue pup.

[Brothermarree]

Oh nevermind
But he's still a pup we never know if he'll be oversized his dad isn't that big

[Lailas_DAD]

brothermaree: "Steel" is the pup in question, He was bought a couple of weeks ago from a kennel in miami. The reason why I was asking about him was for my cousin. I didn't want him to be cheated out of money on a pup. I feel as if my cousin was getting the dog because it was a pit. Do you follow. He just got the papers yesterday, UKC, as far as how is the pup breed...All I know from what he told me , was that the sire is "Weedoo's truck daddy" and dam is "weedoo's blaze" now ...what else you need to know , i wil have to ask my cousin

[Brothermarree]

He does seem to hane easty westy feet but could just be standing like that.
But his dad is porpotional

[Brothermarree]

brothermaree: "Steel" is the pup in question, He was bought a couple of weeks ago from a kennel in miami. The reason why I was asking about him was for my cousin. I didn't want him to be cheated out of money on a pup. I feel as if my cousin was getting the dog because it was a pit. Do you follow. He just got the papers yesterday, UKC, as far as how is the pup breed...All I know from what he told me , was that the sire is "Weedoo's truck daddy" and dam is "weedoo's blaze" now ...what else you need to know , i wil have to ask my cousin
His Father is
Gaff, Fox, and Larum - Not Bad at all
Truck is out of Ch Baytown's Sofia's Foxy Lady and D-built's Bully

His mother is
Champion Tonkawa and Gaff

Actually alot of UKC AKC Champs running through this blood.
This breeder knew what he was doing with this breeding I don'ttt know about his other dogs but you can Definately(sp?) do conformation with Steel.
I think were focusing more on him being blue than where he comes from and what he can be.
His moms lines and the kennel produce quite a few Champs. more than 5 from his moms kennel's alone.

[Lailas_DAD]

so over all as far as blood goes, its a good dog

[Big Papa]

not really....it depends on the owner

[Brothermarree]

Over all yes
He probably wiil be a good UKC Conformation Dog.
Or even weightpuller

[jadedpitgirl]

I double checked, AADR makes no indication of blue eyes while ADBA considered it a major fault
Just wanted to say that this is false. The ADBA Standard States:

Major faults: Merle color pattern or albinism. (White dog, blue or pink eyes, lacks pigment)

Meaning: Albino dogs which display white fur with either blue or pink eyes and pink skin. This is not necesarilly referring to a dog with blue eyes. If it were such a fault, my pup Tukker would not have taken first place in 4-6 month males on both days at the Bushnell (FL) show, and a first in Jr. Handler. You can clearly see his blue eye, but because he is not lacking pigment, it is NOT a fault.

http://www.freespaces.com/jadedpitbulls/tukkerdistrict7.jpg http://www.freespaces.com/jadedpitbulls/tukker3months.jpg

And here is a pic of Tukker's mother Maggie, her right eye is blue.
http://www.freespaces.com/jadedpitbulls/maggieprego2small.jpg

[ABK]

so over all as far as blood goes, its a good dog
Sure, if you're into show staffs. If you're into that he sounds well bred, but most true put bull fanciers would scorn a ped like that.

[rocksteady]

Just wanted to say that this is false. The ADBA Standard States:

Major faults: Merle color pattern or albinism. (White dog, blue or pink eyes, lacks pigment)

Meaning: Albino dogs which display white fur with either blue or pink eyes and pink skin. This is not necesarilly referring to a dog with blue eyes. If it were such a fault, my pup Tukker would not have taken first place in 4-6 month males on both days at the Bushnell (FL) show, and a first in Jr. Handler. You can clearly see his blue eye, but because he is not lacking pigment, it is NOT a fault.
that doesnt mean a pup of excellent conformation with a fault will not place over another dog withouth that fault..as for example a dog with a underbite would place over a dog with no underbite if that dog had the better physical conformation. I know about THAT particular show and how the judge was picking dogs.. Clearly some excellent dogs were not getting placed in their classes as the judge had a standard he liked.... ;) And in Jr handling it isnt about the dog.. it is about the handler per say. Ive seen dogs with bad hocks become show champions ..... ;) and note ,your dog only has one blue eye, not two...

[Brothermarree]

Oh, yes it is AKC/UKC Staff blood But he's worth it. Do UKC Shows with him.

[houstonapbt]

so over all as far as blood goes, its a good dogDepends...if your cousin was looking for a well bred APBT, he failed. He found what SOUNDS to be a "well bred" Am Staff. Good looking dog...make sure he knows just because UKC calls it an APBT it doesn't make it so. It is in fact an AM Staff due to the pups background/breeding purpose.

[Brothermarree]

Definatly not a game dog but still a good Dog

[jadedpitgirl]

I know about THAT particular show and how the judge was picking dogs.. Clearly some excellent dogs were not getting placed in their classes as the judge had a standard he liked.... ;) First of all, I don't know if I should be offended by this or not.... Are you telling me, that on both days, with two different judges, they both liked sub-standard dogs as opposed to excellent dogs? I find it hard to believe that two different judges would pick a dog with a fault when there were others without the same fault. On Saturday's class, there were only 3 other males than mine, and all 3 were awesome. I really did not expect to even place, let alone take first. And then on Sunday, there were 5 other pups who looked great, but that judge also placed him first. I know ALL judges have "their standard", but I just can't believe that two different judges would have the same "idea" of standard when there were plenty of other excellent pups in either class. As far as the Jr Handling, I figured I would throw that in, because the little girl had never handled and it was only Tukker's second time to be shown. I didn't even know who she was until that morning and she asked to show the pup. How could I turn her down? The fact that THEY won was amazing to me, considering there were so many other experienced handlers and excellent specimen. As far as a cow-hocked dog being Ch, you're absolutely right. If you show your faulty dog long enough, eventually you will champion it out, any one could do that;)

[SAM_I_AM]

Are you referring to those like the ones on my dog (avatar)? If this what you are talking about, they are the best eyes to have (Just my bias opinion):D

I do not know of any sickness linked to this coloration (although red does have some "potential" issues, not enough to compare to blues and white coloration).

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by SAM_I_AM
Ok i totally understand about the blue eyes, but what about gold eyes?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Rocky's Human,
I was actually wondering about my dog's eye's. His are gold also. and I agree with you I wouldnt have it any other way(unless it causes helth prob. but in this case it doesn't).

[rocksteady]

First of all, I don't know if I should be offended by this or not.... Are you telling me, that on both days, with two different judges, they both liked sub-standard dogs as opposed to excellent dogs? I find it hard to believe that two different judges would pick a dog with a fault when there were others without the same fault. On Saturday's class, there were only 3 other males than mine, and all 3 were awesome. I really did not expect to even place, let alone take first. And then on Sunday, there were 5 other pups who looked great, but that judge also placed him first. I know ALL judges have "their standard", but I just can't believe that two different judges would have the same "idea" of standard when there were plenty of other excellent pups in either class. As far as the Jr Handling, I figured I would throw that in, because the little girl had never handled and it was only Tukker's second time to be shown. I didn't even know who she was until that morning and she asked to show the pup. How could I turn her down? The fact that THEY won was amazing to me, considering there were so many other experienced handlers and excellent specimen. As far as a cow-hocked dog being Ch, you're absolutely right. If you show your faulty dog long enough, eventually you will champion it out, any one could do that;)

For one, I said straight hocks, not COW hocked which is 2 different things And no, you shouldnt be "offended" ... Because Showing is POLITCAL and its all about WHAT THE JUDGE LIKES.. You basically are paying for the judges INTERPATATION of the standard.. Some judges like Tall dogs ,some prefer the shorter dogs..some judges look over things like eyes and ears while others get down right picky. Was the judge picking sub par dogs? Probably not but I do know there were some EXCELLENT dogs that didnt place and maybe at another show, different judges they would have mopped up the ribbons. Are you starting to understand now? Did I say your dog was sub par? Nope..the judge just liked it better thats all. Does that mean there werent BETTER DOGS ? NO.. and maybe those better dogs didnt show up the next day :D Maybe your dog was having a great weekend.. heck, MY dogs have their off weekends..or dont place one show then go to next show and consitantly place under 2 -3 judges.. As for Jr Handling.. Ive seen jr handlers "win" and their PARENTS ARE IN THE RING WITH THEM HELPING which to me isnt jr handling.. so tell a story to someone else cause Ive seen it all... Ive seen judges pick dogs IMO and other more experienced (also other judges) opinion that really shouldnt have won, Ive seen judges allow facing off in rings, dogs that try to snap place ect ect ect..

Showing is really nothing more than a fun time .. since I dont base my dogs off if they win a ribbon or not, I dont care.. but I sure do enjoy collecting a ribbon.. yep, it feels good ..but in the long run, it dont mean diddly squat because its just an opinion ...