Standard for Blues

[Defend2DaEnd]

I'm trying to seperate the APBT from the new unimproved American Blue Bluff Terrier. I tried to sound technical but I'm sleepy. So throw in some stuff if I missed anything. I think these breeders are just using the title Pit Bull for the popularity, cause these dogs are like almost the opposite of Pit Bulls. YOu guys are brain washing me lmao. Sorry if it offends anyone. So this is what I got:

Weight- 50-100 lbs the bigger the better
Heigh- 26-30 inches the shorter the better
Colors- I have seen except merle on them but of course rare Blue is the most common
Head- Massive and wide, extra skin on neck is okay, muzzle gives the appearance of a U from above, some are round and some are shaped like hearts, ears are amall and rose bud if not cropped and close to head, eyes are narrow, slanted and far apart, eyes come in many colors but blue is the favorite, wrinkles are allowed if not required
Neck- Thick and round
chest- massive and thick the wider the better, bow legged is accepted and appreciated (I mean who cares about health problems *sarcastic*)
legs- round, thick and short, the more mastiff looking the better
body- the more weight the better, some may have rolls some may claim to be all muscle, Torso is thick and tight skinned with a short gap between the under belly and ground
tail- not past hocks and extremely thick


I was bored : )

[robert]

I think what you call "unimproved blue pits" are ugly and are slowly going to change the original appearance of the pit bull. These freaks are less able to work (in a general sens). Everything in the breeding programs seems to be about the looks. In doing so the breeders are avoiding the character, which is in my opinion the most imortant and distinctive trait of pit bulls. The problem comes from the fact that pit bulls are not really seen as a breed by international instances. Even if the abda and the ukc recognize it as a breed, no one is there to fixe limits in the breeding standard. To my mind the big blue pits are a sort of new staffs.

[pitbulllvr25]

except for blue, you just discribed a Bull Mastiff. My husbands father has 4 of them and besideds the fact they are a fawn color, everything you just descibed fits them to a T.

I believe these "big style APBT" are mixed with Bull Mastiff, and are shorter than the English Mastiff. They are shorter, wide, very large heads, and are 90-100+ lbs.

[Diesel]

I'm trying to seperate the APBT from the new unimproved American Blue Bluff Terrier. I tried to sound technical but I'm sleepy. So throw in some stuff if I missed anything. I think these breeders are just using the title Pit Bull for the popularity, cause these dogs are like almost the opposite of Pit Bulls. YOu guys are brain washing me lmao. Sorry if it offends anyone. So this is what I got:

Weight- 50-100 lbs the bigger the better Semi-true.

Heigh- 26-30 inches the shorter the better Actually they tend to shoot for dogs that are 18" tall and try not to exeed 20" but a few lines do go bigger.

Colors- I have seen except merle on them but of course rare Blue is the most commonPretty true.
Head- Massive and wide, extra skin on neck is okay, muzzle gives the appearance of a U from above, some are round and some are shaped like hearts(muzzles are preffered ery short and rounded... bulldog in appearance), ears are amall and rose bud if not cropped and close to head, eyes are narrow, slanted and far apart, eyes come in many colors but blue is the favorite, wrinkles are allowed if not required Blue eyes are a fault, and we shy away from them as well.

Neck- Thick and round
chest- massive and thick the wider the better, bow legged is accepted and appreciated (I mean who cares about health problems *sarcastic*)(Not true, the prefference is for a straight front, but if the chest is big enough they do tend to *overlook* certain things)
legs- round, thick and short, the more mastiff looking the better (Mastiffs acutally have relatively long legs, I think they shoot for more of a English Bulldog look)
body- the more weight the better, some may have rolls some may claim to be all muscle, Torso is thick and tight skinned with a short gap between the under belly and ground
tail- not past hocks and extremely thick


I was bored : )[/QUOTE]
Yes, you were bored werent you?

[pitbulllvr25]

except for blue, you just discribed a Bull Mastiff. My husbands father has 4 of them and besideds the fact they are a fawn color, everything you just descibed fits them to a T.

I believe these "big style APBT" are mixed with Bull Mastiff, and are shorter than the English Mastiff. They are shorter, wide, very large heads, and are 90-100+ lbs.

[Defend2DaEnd]

Robert- That's why I was calling them Bluffs Blue Staffs. BEcause they carry more characteristics of Staffs than Pit Bulls. I think the breeders just use the Pit Bull name for the popularity or value of it. It makes their dogs sound more mean. I think the breed should have a seperate name because they are two totally different breeds. I mean if I knew nothing about Pit Bulls and I saw a picture of a old style Pit Bull and a Bluff I would say they are two different breeds. I think Pit Bull as a breed shouldn't be as diverse as it is. No other breed that I know of is accepted in the breeding community in so many different ways. I have nothing against the blues but I don't think they are Pit Bulls in the least they probably still have a bit in them but you couldn't tell by looking.

Diesel- Thank you for correcting me. I just noted that if they have blue eyes they get a lot more comments on them. There was this one male with blue eyes who the breeder said had a waiting list "a mile long". So it was my assumption they were liked. What I don't get about the breeding of these dogs is are the people really concerned about weight ratios? My vet/friend says that having a dog that is 20 inches and 100+ pounds is going to cause future problems as they are bred bigger and bigger. She said she is already starting to have people bring them in with bad hips and athritis at the age of 5. She also said that since they are bred at 2 or 3 people are not giving them a chance to make sure that are not passing on genetic or heridatory diseases, and most are not scanned for them either. She told me to not that if it continues Bluffs will be the next Lab with hip dysplasia or Dalmation with hearing problems.

[gametime]

my blue male i had was 15 inches tall. 68 lbs heavy 63 lbs lean. he was athletic like my 30lb female bonnie. bonnie has gamelines and weightpull lines in hr but throws small - medium size blues. i no longer own any blue dogs jus game bred dogs. but i did like my blues they jus could not get the job done like my others except for some blues like passmoores bo didly 2xw a blue who meant bussiness. passmoores adba reg he produces light- meddleweight blues,reds,seals, brindles,etc that have the game lines chinaman,frisco,snooty, outlaw,nigerino,z-11,ceasar, and then he has some weight pull lines in there giving you the look angels,man o steel, watsons, and then you have a dog that has the look that is red or blue or seal and that acts like a pure chinaman/frisco dog. now that to me is what i call quaility breeding.

[ghost 1]

except for blue, you just discribed a Bull Mastiff. My husbands father has 4 of them and besideds the fact they are a fawn color, everything you just descibed fits them to a T.

I believe these "big style APBT" are mixed with Bull Mastiff, and are shorter than the English Mastiff. They are shorter, wide, very large heads, and are 90-100+ lbs.
a pit bull came from a bulldog and a terrier mix,,

a bulldog is alot larger than a terrier, i have a 90+ pound adba reg. pitbull

[rocksteady]

a pit bull came from a bulldog and a terrier mix,,

a bulldog is alot larger than a terrier, i have a 90+ pound adba reg. pitbull
just because its registered with ADBA doesnt mean there wasnt some paper hangin somewhere .... or that occasionally a bigger dog doesnt show up but the AVERAGE size of the APBT is no where near 90+ pounds....

[americandream]

ya they are bulldogs and terrier mixes, some look more like bulldogs and some look more like terriers. the big blue 100 blues look really bad to my opinon..... its all because bad breeding, i too think they should stick to the standard, those dogs are useless. too overdone.

you gotta admit, theres nothing more beautiful then a correct adba blue.

[TinMan]

I too also believe there was a mix in the blood somewhere, It's practically undeniable and if it were "Well, it's breeding biggest to biggest" we'd have 400 lbs. Rotts by now. That excuse can only carry so far. To see a double in weight size in the animal kingdom is highly unlikely and very un-natural. And as for Staff Blood : http://www.lamasko.com/x-pert/ Tell these guys that ! You can track the whole hisory of the X-Pert line from this site and I never do recall seeing a 95 lbs. Blue staff, BUT I could've overlooked it !! LOL !!

Bottom line is anyone can hang a set of papers, plain and simple. And as a defense for getting "ripped-off" we use excuses like, "It's genetics" or "Well, he has bulldog in him anyway" . .. .. . I feel this is all a weak ploy to appeal to the mind into believing that you got what you wanted and are happy it has the "PitBull" tag on it. The actual origin of the APBT did include several lines, but with the best modern breeding techniques out there you still wouldn't get your "Juan Gotti" dogs in the least and if this were true I challenge you to fing me a 110lbs. APBT in 1935 ? Virtually genetically impossible. There are freaks of nature such as "Andre the Giant" but he had a gland problem. . . . Is that genetically sound ?? What really does me in is the fact that some people out there are actually inbreeding these big "ban-dogs". Inbreeding these dogs potentially lead to instability of prey-drive, HENCE: The local 4 year old girl getting mauled by a big blue monster in her own front yard as the parents can do nothing but watch. Sheer money driven genius, and nothing more. . .. .. JMHO.

[chinasmom]

a pit bull came from a bulldog and a terrier mix,,


This is the Terrier you speak of, known as the Old English White or Black and Tan.

[chinasmom]

It shows my attachments, why won't they show when posted?

[rocksteady]

you gotta admit, theres nothing more beautiful then a correct adba blue.
OH YES THERE IS!!!!!!! A true game dog no matter WHAT the registry :D

[americandream]

well its just my opinon. correct blues are amazing.

why would anyone need a true game dog? i could see it if the year was 1930.

[Brothermarree]

HEY that's bogus my boy is a tall blue brindle.
And athletic( natural wind) I mean this dog just keeps running if you ride your bike or have him on the treadmill.
Now I get what your saying but you really need to stop juding all blues alike
they are not.
I guess even though my boy is conformation ADBA near perfect he should be neutured?
Or he's mixed?
Not gonna happen.

[rocksteady]

Yes, Brother M has a point.. there are also plenty of oversized Red, chocolate, white, etc dogs out there, too ...

[Brothermarree]

Most dogs that attack little red noses not "big blues" as you say.

[Brothermarree]

Was talking to Tinman in last post
Also Tinman Colby's Pincher Had no gland Problem.
Rock don't your dogs run on the bigger side?
Not arguing just proving my point.

[rocksteady]

I yes, a few bigger ones have popped up here and there... but it isnt the norm and they usually dont keep on producing BIGGER dogs ... even when the larger dogs of the line were bred togather, smaller dogs resulted...
but right now the largest I have is 65 chain fat on average they run 45 -50

[ABK]

well its just my opinon. correct blues are amazing.

why would anyone need a true game dog? i could see it if the year was 1930.Yes, it's just your opinion. Whether dog ppl like it or not, we all have our favorite colors. I like this guy. It always throws me when I see a blanket back pit bull.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/100928.jpg


As for why would anyone need a true gamedog let's see ...

I'm out in the sawgrass & I cap a 300lb boss board hog w/ 2 in tusks. Just my luck all that hog does is look at me & charge. No trees in sight & all that stands between you & certain death is your pit bull. I don't know about you, but I'd sure want my dog to be truly game! Or what if an intruder grabs me? I don't know about you, but I sure as heck want a dog who will defend me to the death!!

Other ppl meanwhile just want a peice of living history. Having a true gamedog is the difference between having a 1986 Charger hatchback or having a 1969 Charger R/T w/ a 440 magnum!

Which would you rather have?

This ...

http://www.rit.edu/~sez6882/mopar/media/shelbychargers.jpg


or this...??

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/8343/lees.jpg

The choice is simple for me!

[Brothermarree]

How tall if you don't mind me asking?
Mine is 22-23 inches
The highest the ADBA allows
the standard use to say somthing lik 3:1 ration meaning a dog 22-23 inches can be 66-69 lbs.
He's between 70-75 fat right now so is he out of standard?

[rocksteady]

I have never measured my dogs to see how tall they are.. weight yes..have to to get correct wormer dosages, etc

as long as a dog is square.. thats what i go by

[ABK]

You can see the APBT standard here:

http://www.adba.cc/p_pdetails.asp?fpid=32&pg=32

[Marinepits]

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/8343/lees.jpg


I'm in LOVE!!! Gorgeous!

Oh, and good post, too! ;)

[TinMan]

And Coldy's Pincher looked nothing like the animal in your photo. I agree that there are occasionaly bigger dogs, but yet see not one post to that explains how Pincher got to look like any one of these dogs everyone boasts about. It's ironic however, that with these dogs, no matter what "size" they are come downfalls. The classic APBT has a nasty rep for "dog fighters" while these bigger dogs are achieving quite a rep for "man biters" . I can see that these big "ban-dogs" will actually be the Life or Death of this great breed as we know it.

[TinMan]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=5650

20 lbs. off is a bit extreme, but if it was or wasn't this dog topped 75 lbs. As you go back and look at the Sire you will notice a match weight of 35lbs. Looking thru most offspring didn't avail much, but one did state 44lbs. AGAIN, exception to the rule. JMO, nothing more.

[americandream]

if anything I think its irrasponsible owners/breeders thats the problem. these big ban dogs arent very athletic. over half of them are too lazy to move an inch. its all about people, they are the problem.
as breeders they should find a responsible home that has the time to socailize and train the animal.
then agian overbreeding is a big problem too. theres to many pit bulls around for all the wrong reasons. money, image ect.

[houstonapbt]

Most dogs that attack little red noses not "big blues" as you say.Most dogs that attack people are mutts labeled as "pittbulls"...hm...dogs bred to be big...dogs bred for color...dogs bred for head size...chest size...etc.,...= ...mutts, don't you think? lol.


I got a question for you...why do you defend the "big" or "big blue" dogs so much??! You KNOW what you got. People here are mostly talking about dogs bred out of standard, much to the standards I posted above. If your dog is "game bred", why worry about what people say about those MUTTS? They are in fact, mutts, are they not? I'm beginning to think you've realized that your dog perhaps fits into the category of "pittbull"...not putting your dog down, good looking dog. He is what he is...I say you should neuter him, but it's your dog not mine.

[J Henry]

If people are breeding for color, head size, weight, ect. and not putting gameness first in their breeding program then they are not breeding true bulldogs!! Without gameness all you have is a copy of the real deal and they are no longer bulldogs.
Houstonapbt, I like you signature. It says it all!!

[Whiskey Bay]

as breeders they should find a responsible home that has the time to socailize and train the animal.
As breeders,they should not be breeding the dogs to be oversized , medically challenged,potatoes.IF they truly loved the breed,they would NOT breed and have the ones they have now altered.

ya they are bulldogs and terrier mixes, some look more like bulldogs and some look more like terriers. the big blue 100 blues look really bad to my opinon..... its all because bad breeding, i too think they should stick to the standard, those dogs are useless. too overdone.

you gotta admit, theres nothing more beautiful then a correct adba blue.Of course you know me,I have to agree with the last part of the quote.My Booboo was the most beautiful dog on my yard.
Miakoda and I have already made our decisions on this subject.The new big,bully,and blues are now known as American Blue Bull Terriers.And they should be recognized as a totally separate breed.
The BYB and B$B are the ones who are ruining our breed.The blues are the main ones screwing us over ,BUT the blue color is not the biggest downfall , The SIZE is.I have a buddy who has a RED male of Dagger lines who was 108 pounds at 8 months old.Now he has not once bred for size,but obviously the breeder he got him from did,as they tend to dote on the size. I have seen many sites selling for size.The typical "Want" tends to be 18" tall ,most 27" head, 25+" chest, and 90+ pounds.
I love my gamedogs,and my blues.But they have to be worthy to go on from there.This is my Boo (2nd pic) and his daughter.It was not a blue breeding as her dam was a red brindle and she only had 3 out of 10.The only 3 he has ever thrown.I believe they are good examples of color/standard ratio.

[americandream]

i dont like the over sized pit bull neither. i love that dog you posted above.

[GSDbulldog]

In America, bigger is better :rolleyes: . Blues aren't the only 'extreem ghetoo pitts' being bred. Reds, chocolates, whites, mereles- any color is affected. We just like to play around with blues more, 'cause that's whats selling at this point. If a bigname celebrity thug were to run out an purchase a hairless hippo-dog, guess what we would be talking about next? The American Hairless Bluff.

Sometimes bigger dogs are thrown, does that make them worthless? No. Proportion is most important when it comes to the physical structure of the APBT. Everyone seems so concerned with weight, that they have forgotten about height. When you have a 60-70IB dog who is 23In tall, you have a pretty nice looking bulldog. When you have a 60-70IB dog who is 15In tall, you have an 'extreem ghetoo pit'.

Compare:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/5650.jpg
http://muglestonspitbullfarm.com/images/Socrates014_lg.jpg

Both dogs are around the same weight, but which one would YOU want in your yard?

(The funny thing is, count how many times the breeder of the hippo above states the words 'pit bull' on his site. Seems to me that they have to keep remind themselves of what they are TRYING to breed, 'cause looking at their own dogs sure a'int cutting it.)

I doubt making a new name for these dogs will do anything. When BSL comes along, they will be noted as having 'pit bull characteristics', and will also be banned.

[Marinepits]

http://muglestonspitbullfarm.com/images/Socrates014_lg.jpg


This dog looks like he couldn't get out of his own way! Yikes. ;)

[GSDbulldog]

But he's blue :D

[Marinepits]

But he's blue :D
Well, then, I absolutely MUST have him! :rolleyes:

[Whiskey Bay]

Sometimes bigger dogs are thrown, does that make them worthless? No. Proportion is most important when it comes to the physical structure of the APBT. Everyone seems so concerned with weight, that they have forgotten about height. When you have a 60-70IB dog who is 23In tall, you have a pretty nice looking bulldog. When you have a 60-70IB dog who is 15In tall, you have an 'extreem ghetoo pit'.

I have to agree with the height weight ratio deal. Here is my own example,LOl.

[Marinepits]

Sometimes bigger dogs are thrown, does that make them worthless? No. Proportion is most important when it comes to the physical structure of the APBT. Everyone seems so concerned with weight, that they have forgotten about height. When you have a 60-70IB dog who is 23In tall, you have a pretty nice looking bulldog. When you have a 60-70IB dog who is 15In tall, you have an 'extreem ghetoo pit'.

I have to agree with the height weight ratio deal. Here is my own example,LOl.
The second photo is one gorgeous dog (I love the brindling), but the first one looks like he got sat on by a very heavy object.

Proportion is everything, for sure!

[rocksteady]

pit bull isnt a breed of dog,,,, its a type.... there are a few breeds that are referred to as "pit bulls"

[TinMan]

I don't agree with that statement and I doubt Ralph Greenwood, Maurice Carver and a slew of other APBT breeders would either. If that were the case any breed would be considered TYPES . . .. .. Would you like to elaborate on the TYPES for us please ? I would very much like to hear the variety of breeds that are cosidered "pitbulls".

[GSDbulldog]

I don't agree with that statement and I doubt Ralph Greenwood, Maurice Carver and a slew of other APBT breeders would either. If that were the case any breed would be considered TYPES . . .. .. Would you like to elaborate on the TYPES for us please ? I would very much like to hear the variety of breeds that are cosidered "pitbulls".
The American Pit Bull Terrier is a breed. The American Staffordshire is a breed. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a breed. The general term 'pit bull' is not a breed. There is no dog breed called the 'pit bull'- it is a term used to describe numerous breeds (i.e., AmStaffs, APBTs, SBTs, American Bulldogs, Presa Canarios, Dogo Argentinos, numerous bulldog breeds, and any shorthaired & stocky mutt) and mongerals that get lumped together by the media, 'dog experts', and ignorant owners/breeders. On this site, and many others, the term 'pit bull' is used to describe the APBT. However, he is right, there is no one breed called the 'pit bull', it's just a type; or in this case, an abriviation for the American Pit Bull Terrier.

Just like 'retriever' can be used to describe any lab-like dog, the term 'pit bull' is used to describe these warthogs. Why? Because 'pit bulls' are 'cool'. The words sell the product.

[GSDbulldog]

pit bull isnt a breed of dog,,,, its a type.... there are a few breeds that are referred to as "pit bulls"
That's why I said even officially calling these hippos American Bluffs won't do much- everyone would still call them pit bulls.

[TinMan]

I can see the generality of your point in regards to a "type". However, I the "pitbull" I know is the APBT and the one we are referring to, correct ?? I can see where you are coming from and to the untrained eye there are alot of breeds similar to or bred down from or into the APBT as we know it. To classify these other "Bully Breeds" as the APBT is blind, but as you mentioned the media, as well as the general population would disagree quickly... .. ..

[rocksteady]

naw Tin Man.. even in yester year the APBT was refered to as the American (pit) Bull Terrier.. the pit in ( ) from the research i've gathered .. but in recent years, pit has become such a negative imagine.. it would be nice to get away from that negativite

[TinMan]

Bull & Terrier, Yankee Terrier, American Bull Terrier, American "Pit" Bull Terrier are all the same dog and be it as it may my ADBA & UKC papers say: AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER. Maybe I need to show my charges this simple mis-wording as it has been brought to my attention. Regardless as to what I feel my dogs are, their papers state or what the animal was called in the 19th century, I believe this topic was about a sub-species of what I call the APBT. Apparently in my case ignorance is bliss .. ....

[Brothermarree]

In America, bigger is better :rolleyes: . Blues aren't the only 'extreem ghetoo pitts' being bred. Reds, chocolates, whites, mereles- any color is affected. We just like to play around with blues more, 'cause that's whats selling at this point. If a bigname celebrity thug were to run out an purchase a hairless hippo-dog, guess what we would be talking about next? The American Hairless Bluff.

Sometimes bigger dogs are thrown, does that make them worthless? No. Proportion is most important when it comes to the physical structure of the APBT. Everyone seems so concerned with weight, that they have forgotten about height. When you have a 60-70IB dog who is 23In tall, you have a pretty nice looking bulldog. When you have a 60-70IB dog who is 15In tall, you have an 'extreem ghetoo pit'.

Compare:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/5650.jpg
http://muglestonspitbullfarm.com/images/Socrates014_lg.jpg

Both dogs are around the same weight, but which one would YOU want in your yard?

(The funny thing is, count how many times the breeder of the hippo above states the words 'pit bull' on his site. Seems to me that they have to keep remind themselves of what they are TRYING to breed, 'cause looking at their own dogs sure a'int cutting it.)

I doubt making a new name for these dogs will do anything. When BSL comes along, they will be noted as having 'pit bull characteristics', and will also be banned.
That's kind of what I was saying, SORRY ALL MEMBERS, it just seemed like they were putting all blues in one catogory- I was upset when I wrote it.
Mine is the Colby's Pincher type- but his father was big and his mother was small. You can see his Granma and his mom in the litter she had. I personally like little short 30lbs ders, but I got a big one on my yard and like the look.
I don't breed for game, I do need Drive and athletism(sp?) I rrealy don't know why I got so upset- myy male aint no RE look alike- Not that all RE is crap but majority is short wide I like the look but it's not for a pit.
More new breed in my oppinion.
The thing that gets me the most is some of those dogs are actually just fat- soe would be like 30lbs instead of 50-60.

[Iverson's Pits]

I took in an 82 lbs Razors Edge male temporarily for a good friend of mine. I told him i was gonna condition his dog a lil bit. In about a 5 month period, i had him slimmed down to a LEAN and DEFINED 55-58 lbs. He was able to run for about 1.75 miles before barely slowing down, he worked a bite sleeve and flirt pole almost as good as my game-dogs, and was a GREAT house dog. ZERO game, and I'm sure zero ability, but the bloodline alone does not ensure a dog will be lazy, fat, over-weight, and junk. My friend was so impressed with what he saw after those 5 months, that he changed his mind on what he "liked" and got himself a Killian/Jeep/Chinaman dog.....one hell of an improvement I'd say!


That's kind of what I was saying, SORRY ALL MEMBERS, it just seemed like they were putting all blues in one catogory- I was upset when I wrote it.
Mine is the Colby's Pincher type- but his father was big and his mother was small. You can see his Granma and his mom in the litter she had. I personally like little short 30lbs ders, but I got a big one on my yard and like the look.
I don't breed for game, I do need Drive and athletism(sp?) I rrealy don't know why I got so upset- myy male aint no RE look alike- Not that all RE is crap but majority is short wide I like the look but it's not for a pit.
More new breed in my oppinion.
The thing that gets me the most is some of those dogs are actually just fat- soe would be like 30lbs instead of 50-60.

[Brothermarree]

That's good to hear. I know it was they were just fat- most any way- some really do have wide frmes I think

[Brothermarree]

Maybe I should change my males pic in my sig- it seems to thrugh people off about how he looks?
You think?
Het check my Galery for Joplin and her litter

[ABK]

I don't breed for game ... Please forgive me, but I must ask - if you're not breeding for gameness, why do you even own or breed pit bulls? Why not get staffs, Presas or Corsos?

A lot of ppl forget that gameness is the essence of the APBT & once the gameness is gone so will the APBT. With no gameness we'll be left w/ nothing but a shell that once housed that indomitable spirit we once knew as the American Pit Bull Terrier. The true pit bull will be extinct. :(

[TinMan]

I concur with ABK, it's like owning Greyhounds but never racing them. . . ...

[Defend2DaEnd]

I'm glad people agree that they should be registered as a seperate breed. : )

[TinMan]

Or maybe we should change the APBT name ?? LOL !! ;)

[houstonapbt]

it's like owning Greyhounds but never racing them. . . ...Or instead of breeding a racing animal breeding for weight pullers...

Or maybe we should change the APBT name ?? LOL !! ;)American Game Dog. :D

[ghost 1]

just because its registered with ADBA doesnt mean there wasnt some paper hangin somewhere .... or that occasionally a bigger dog doesnt show up but the AVERAGE size of the APBT is no where near 90+ pounds....
i totally agree rocksteady,but i've seen sun bull mastiff and pit mixes and to me there eyes are to close together and don't look right, my female is 45-50 and theres nothing better than a politicily correct, should i say, pitbull,, thats what wrong with pitbulls now, to much paperhanngin and breeding for size,or color, but conditioned my male would slim down to a respectalbe weight, but the IMO'
a bull mastiff should be kept as far away from this breed as possible because it make them ugly,JMO,,,,i know a dog like this close to me that looks like a saint benard or or a maastiff but everyone say you see his dog and i say yes but he mixed,with something,, he not a pitbull, they say he looks like it ,,

[ghost 1]

i,ve learned alot from this site from alot of knowledgeable dog men and women, and there are sum oversized and undersized(pocket pit) i don't think someone should breed for size, now IMO a 90-100 lb blue wouldn't look right, but there will be the freak happenings, but i didn't say what i said to start anything, just a mastiff mixed pitbull is ugly,,IMO,,,and totally seperate from this breed,,

[houstonapbt]

When people say "freaks" in this breed, we don't mean 100 lbs. Mayday could be considered a "freak" and he was what...75lbs chain weight?

[Whiskey Bay]

No,Mayday was the exception.Dogs like him and Pinscher,etc are the throw off we speak of.The "Freaks" are the unstandardized, unconditioned, overbred, overpriced, overdone,lopsided,funny azz looking dogs everyone else 'likes.
When people say "freaks" in this breed, we don't mean 100 lbs. Mayday could be considered a "freak" and he was what...75lbs chain weight?

[ghost 1]

No,Mayday was the exception.Dogs like him and Pinscher,etc are the throw off we speak of.The "Freaks" are the unstandardized, unconditioned, overbred, overpriced, overdone,lopsided,funny azz looking dogs everyone else 'likes.
and should Not be considered apbt,--- i,ve got a 12 gen ped on mine and mine has the colby in him,i'll figure out how to post it and post it.

[Iverson's Pits]

The producer of ALOT of extremely hard game dogs out here was about 80 lbs chain weight! He was DEAD GAME....2XW. Here is a pic of him with a little less weight on him, and one of his daughters I have: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=184386



When people say "freaks" in this breed, we don't mean 100 lbs. Mayday could be considered a "freak" and he was what...75lbs chain weight?

[Diesel]

Okay I have been gone all weekend, sorry for the absence on this great topic.

Now lets see if I get this right:
The right size for a game dog is 30-50 lbs or there about. These are dogs that are bred for performance, size, color, build, any of that to the side, if the dog can perform then the dog is bred... period.
Okay well given these breeding practices there are still freaks born that are almost double in size: Mayday, Alligator, Big John just to name some of the bigger named dogs. These dogs were double the size of what the average was and there was never a thought of mixing, they proved themselves game and were bred MANY times.

With the outlawing of the sport people began to breed for other reasons, size being one of them. you mean to tell me that you dont think that selectively breeding for size all these generations couldnt give you a raised avrage to 50-80 pounds with freaks roughly doubling the lighter mark?
I am not saying that there arent lines that have mixed, we all know that they are out there... but its not always across the board a given like some of us are trying to make it seem.

Just because a dog is big, or blue, or not bred to be game, doesnt make is a mutt. If you want to call it a staff tahts fine, but not a mutt.

[Defend2DaEnd]

My point Diesel, is that these dogs don't fit the standards and are not bred to fit the standards. The dogs you spoke of before weren't bred for size, color or ect. They were bred for the original purpose of the APBT. Even if it is outlawed the breed should still be able to do it because that is waht they were bred for. The blue bluffs are not bred for that, they don't fit the standard, they were probably outcrossed with other breeds (who knows) somewhere along the lines and I think it should be considered a different breed.

[GSDbulldog]

Okay I have been gone all weekend, sorry for the absence on this great topic.

Now lets see if I get this right:
The right size for a game dog is 30-50 lbs or there about. These are dogs that are bred for performance, size, color, build, any of that to the side, if the dog can perform then the dog is bred... period.
Okay well given these breeding practices there are still freaks born that are almost double in size: Mayday, Alligator, Big John just to name some of the bigger named dogs. These dogs were double the size of what the average was and there was never a thought of mixing, they proved themselves game and were bred MANY times.

With the outlawing of the sport people began to breed for other reasons, size being one of them. you mean to tell me that you dont think that selectively breeding for size all these generations couldnt give you a raised avrage to 50-80 pounds with freaks roughly doubling the lighter mark?
I am not saying that there arent lines that have mixed, we all know that they are out there... but its not always across the board a given like some of us are trying to make it seem.

Just because a dog is big, or blue, or not bred to be game, doesnt make is a mutt. If you want to call it a staff tahts fine, but not a mutt.Iverson used this example too. A gamedog can run larger, but the difference between a gamedog and those hippos is: THE GAMEDOG WASN'T BRED TO BE THAT BIG! It just happened. Some lines run larger than others, but the breeders of those lines are not breeding for size at all- it just happens to be there. Just as some lines tend to be a certain color (Fawn, red, black, etc.), some lines run larger or smaller. Gameness was one of (If not the) the only things the dogs named were bred for; the breeders payed no attention to looks.

When you start breeding for anything other than game, you start to distance yourself away from what the APBT truly is. Size, head shape, and color have nothing to do with this breeds heritage, and have only recently become popular. Are these dogs bred for the show ring mutts? Most of the time they aren't; But IMO, they aren't true bulldogs.

But, your right. It's not fair to call all blue dogs across the board mutts, but it's sure as hell not fair to call them all APBTs when they obviously aren't.

http://www.pitfallkennels.com/new/males/dragonflyjones_full.jpg

How could anyone even compare these two?


http://grandchampionmaydayrom.com/img/may-a01.jpg

[Brothermarree]

Hey May Day Looks Way Better than Him NICE AND SLIQUE (SP?)

[Brothermarree]

Check these guys/ Girl out- You can See how my dog got it's size.

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/2/9/5/5/Joplin.jpg Xhttp://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/2/9/5/5/Gator.jpg At Ten months
Produced this litter
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/2/9/5/5/JoplinGatorLitter.jpg
My dogs Mom is nursing in this litter.

[Brothermarree]

Don't think he was bred at Ten months but He was Ten months in pic

[Brothermarree]

And his Grand fathers father is Tall and 90-95 lbs But he's old and fat.
Probably like 80 in his younger Days

[houstonapbt]

No,Mayday was the exception.Dogs like him and Pinscher,etc are the throw off we speak of.The "Freaks" are the unstandardized, unconditioned, overbred, overpriced, overdone,lopsided,funny azz looking dogs everyone else 'likes.I meant he was a "freak of nature" because he was large, but not like the ACTUAL FREAKS that were posted earlier in the thread...:D

[Brothermarree]

How did they get that big?
A "Freak popped out from a Diamond Jim/Zebo Decendent and He was Heavily Line bred.

[Diesel]

My point Diesel, is that these dogs don't fit the standards and are not bred to fit the standards. The dogs you spoke of before weren't bred for size, color or ect. They were bred for the original purpose of the APBT. Even if it is outlawed the breed should still be able to do it because that is waht they were bred for. The blue bluffs are not bred for that, they don't fit the standard, they were probably outcrossed with other breeds (who knows) somewhere along the lines and I think it should be considered a different breed.
Thats not what I am saying. What I am talking about is people calling them mutTs just because they are big.
If you know anything about selective breeding on any trait you know that its entirely possible.
no different then selectively breedign dogs for gameness... though its much more predeictable.
I completely understand you reasoning for the whole "blue bluff" thing. the names sounds goofy but I get it. But calling them mutts is inaccurate.

[miakoda]

Just because a dog is big, or blue, or not bred to be game, doesnt make is a mutt. If you want to call it a staff tahts fine, but not a mutt.
100lb "pit bulls" didn't just "pop" up. A mutt is a 100lb "pit bull" that was obviously crossed with another breed or even another mixed breed dog to obtain a size & proportion that was just not genetically possible in an already established breed. Whether the dog has the outcrossing 1 generation or 10 generations back, it's still there. Therefore, it's still a mutt.

ABK, I love you more & more each day. ;)

[ABK]

100lb "pit bulls" didn't just "pop" up. A mutt is a 100lb "pit bull" that was obviously crossed with another breed or even another mixed breed dog to obtain a size & proportion that was just not genetically possible in an already established breed. Whether the dog has the outcrossing 1 generation or 10 generations back, it's still there. Therefore, it's still a mutt.

ABK, I love you more & more each day. ;)
Thanks! :D

What gets me is not the size of these bluffs, but their rapid appearance. If these dogs were truly the result of taylored breeding practices they have taken years if not decades to produce, moreso since it is contrary to what the APBT has been bred for the last 200 years. But all of a sudden "poof" we have Whopper, Big Mac Daddy, Juan Gotti, etc. IMO their sudden appearance is more consistent w/ an outcross to another breed, which we already know was the case w/ Whopper. Now are all bluffs mixed? No. But are some? Who knows ...

[Defend2DaEnd]

I don't think it sounds silly at all. It fits them and it is sticking I got people in the neighborhood calling them that. I even have soemone who owns four of them calling his dogs that lol. He says he is naming his next one Master Bluff. He agrees that they should be registered under a different name.