Some show questions

[Jenn]

I've seen numerous photos, browsing in the gallery of winners and of "showing" going on, and had a few dog showing questions.

During the shows are you judged constantly or just when it's your "turn" for the judge?
Are you then given time to get your dog ready, or should you be ready before hand?

The lunging, pulling, seemingly sometimes "out of control" dogs ~ is that considered a "fault" on this breed during showing or just an expectation?

Are there things that you could do "wrong" that would cause the dog to loose, or not be presented properly? Or it doesn't really matter either way? Just see the dog and the dog is judged regardless of your ignorance/knowledge? With "the perfect dog" if you did not know how to properly place your dog in a stack, nor the dog know how to stay in it ~ would it affect the outcome?

Are the dogs judged on everything? Including things such as ~ ears, eyes, toenails, reproductive organs, teeth, reactions? Or just given a "once over" by the judge?

Is it only ADBA shows that doesn't have the "hands on" approach to judging? Are your dogs never touched at all by the judge?

I've been to one show, it was in Liberty, TX many moons ago, and I wasn't impressed, and had plenty of questions when it was over. I'm sure I will think of many more, besides I just figured it was time for some "education" and dog talk! So educate and talk! ;) lol

[rocksteady]

4 words... Depends on the Judge

It certainly helps to know how to present your dog.. a well conditioned, flashy, on fire dog catches the judges eye ... and how you stack the dog, how the dog reacts to other dogs even with faults could get that ribbon.. and in that, it helps to know how to help hide your dogs faults and show off the best traits .. so yes, knowledge comes into play.

Each judge tends to judge differently. This year i went to an aadr show where for the first time the judge actually handled the dogs.. which was really neat i think.. in 2 years of really going to shows thats the first time thats ever happened.

I dont get to go to to many ADBA shows..so mostly what Im speaking from is AADR. Alot is simply what the judge likes to see in a dog.. the conditioning of the dog (as for pups, they shouldnt be..but usually in the 9 to 12 month old class ..they are looking pretty slim)

In aadr your dog doesnt have to stand still all the time, but you dont want it to be sitting ot laying down (thanks bo lol..he was always trying to do this) you also want to try and have your dog looking at the judge alot when he or she is looking at other dogs..everytime the judge turns or whatnot, you want your dog to catch his or her eye

The judge will look at your dog from all angles.. have you walk them to see gaint, look at teeth.. I was told once by an OLD TIMER that a good judge should be able to pick out the top dogs in a class as soon as they walk in the ring.. but a good judge will give every dog in the class the same check..

after the dogs are looked at, the judge will sometimes move dogs around to look at them against other dogs in the class, re evaluate a few (judging them against each other) .. to determine his or her picks...

and then comes the whining after the class ... I imagine sometimes politics plays a part in the show ring..

whew.. I only typed all this cause u have street credit with your homies..u know who WE are

[Jenn]

Thanks, for some more insight Rock ;)

The lunging though, moving?? Not frowned upon?
Just another case, where depends on who the judge is?

How long does a decision normally take a judge to decide?

[rocksteady]

depends on the class ... (the amount and qulaity of the dogs in it)

and again, some judges like to see it, others frown upon it (especially UKC) which is funny, since its the dogs natural reaction to other dogs..



but lol isnt it funny.. a dog question and where's all the replies?

[14rock]

I dont register my dogs but I've got one I think would do really well in shows and would possibly like to try out if theres one close so I'm glad you asked these questions. A few I have to add is.....where can I find good ''stack'' info, as this is all new to me. And the judges dont judge hands-on? How can they tell the extent of the muscle definition. The most accurate way to tell how well someone conditions without seeing them hunt is by feeling the muscle structure I would think. A poorly conditioned/ just underweight and not really worked dog will be lacking the muscles,and will feel sloppy as opposed to a conditioned dog feeling slim and tight.....Is it just a matter of the judges having a better eye than I do and not having to feel muscle definition to see the whole picture? If anybody has any good links they would like to share regarding conformation shows feel free to post them.

[rocksteady]

a good judge is suppsoed to be able to tell if a dog is actually conditioned or starved just by looking ... allthough some colors are harder to show because they do not show the muscle definition like others ..

[devinben3]

You can do a search for stacking your dog...there are a few step by step guides...the biggest part in learning to stack your dog, is practice practice practice...everydog is different..some dogs you don't even have to touch for a perfect stack..others might slack and that's where you have to know your dog and make up for it. Move one foot at a time while holding the head in the proper place without lettting the dog move around...which is harder for some dogs. switch hands if you have to. Then after the front is good, move the back feet...this can be tricky with some dogs, don't grab the bottom of the foot or leg, they will just want to pull against you...try at the joint or a big above...then you have to watch for the dog A-framing...which is where the front legs are not far enough under the dog and it forms an A in the judges eye. To correct this you can either re place the front legs, pull the head further up (as long as the rear legs are correctly placed, your dog should straighten up...otherwise you need to re place the front legs)...or like we did in an AKC show w/cairn terriers, you can carefully pull on the tail a few times...pull back and then let the dog pull forward on itself...anyways, this is a lot of info..lol...and it really depends on your dog...try to keep your dog square for the most part and you'll be alright. Some judges prefer a free stack...which is where you just let the dog stand by itself...but most like you to stack. I am lucky to have a big mirror inside so i can practice stacking and see what looks best...try to find a big mirror and that will help you most! good luck!

Like Rock said, a good judge pretty much knows the best few dogs when they first come in the ring. But every judge is different, some judge the dog all the time...some don't, it depends on how many are in the class too. The only time a dog and the handler are judged at all times is in the junior handler classes...at least this goes for the AKC...not sure about the adba or aadr...

[catcher T]

There are comformation classe's that you can take at your local dog school or search other show people that will help you.
Your dog is judged as soon as you hit the ring. the dog cannot be out of control, must be very well behaved. Must have all teeth, nice coat, short nails, impeccably groomed. and all reproductive organs intact. Your dog is not judged against the dogs in the ring, they are judged by breed standards. I have been to many shows where no-one in the ring took first, no-ones dog met breed standard.

[SouthernDixie]

GREAT POST! I've been wondering the same exact questions. Keep the tips commin' :)

[apbtluver]

I've seen numerous photos, browsing in the gallery of winners and of "showing" going on, and had a few dog showing questions.

During the shows are you judged constantly or just when it's your "turn" for the judge?
Are you then given time to get your dog ready, or should you be ready before hand?

The lunging, pulling, seemingly sometimes "out of control" dogs ~ is that considered a "fault" on this breed during showing or just an expectation?

Are there things that you could do "wrong" that would cause the dog to loose, or not be presented properly? Or it doesn't really matter either way? Just see the dog and the dog is judged regardless of your ignorance/knowledge? With "the perfect dog" if you did not know how to properly place your dog in a stack, nor the dog know how to stay in it ~ would it affect the outcome?

Are the dogs judged on everything? Including things such as ~ ears, eyes, toenails, reproductive organs, teeth, reactions? Or just given a "once over" by the judge?

Is it only ADBA shows that doesn't have the "hands on" approach to judging? Are your dogs never touched at all by the judge?

I've been to one show, it was in Liberty, TX many moons ago, and I wasn't impressed, and had plenty of questions when it was over. I'm sure I will think of many more, besides I just figured it was time for some "education" and dog talk! So educate and talk! ;) lol
Ok, going to try to answer the questions to the best of my ability in order regarding the ADBA shows.

First, as for being judged he whole time or just when the judge approaches you depends on the judge. They will let you know in the handlers meeting prior to the show starting what they are wanting out of you and what they are looking for a in a dog.

IMO, you should judge when to start being ready, I'm a bad example because I don't stand their and stack my dog, I will walk them around in a circle and hope they are standing nicely when the judge approaches. If they aren't I have them take a step or two forward until they are. I start this when the judge is looking at the dog next to mine. However, I have some that won't stack they are just little firecrackers and so I just do the best I can. Sometimes if I can stack I'll give it a try.

That brings me to the next question. "Out of control dogs". First and foremost I have bulldogs, I don't show UKC so I don't expect my dogs to act like UKC dogs. Usually the judges like little firecrackers although I was informed the ADBA is going away from that (hence our reason to start showing AADR as well and do less traveling for ADBA shows.) The NC show is a prime example of judges that don't want "out of control dogs" although it isn't out of control, because we have control of the dogs. Anyhow, the judge will advice you of that issue in the handlers meeting as well.

They are supposed to be judged on everything, some judges use a point system others use checkmarks and some don't use anything. I advice going to the ADBA website to see the breakdown on conformation and points assigned.

Hope this helps some.

[devinben3]

Some judges like to see a dog that is well behaved...but in my experience most dogs that have one have been a bit "fiery". Judges expect your dog to show interest in the other dogs around him/her, but not so the handler can not control the dog. Your dog should be interested in things around him/her.
" GENERAL APPEARANCE AADR..
a smooth short coat, well balanced, giving the impression of great strength and ability the demeanor should be fearless and bold, but the temperament MUST be totally reliable with people. The gate should be powerful and fluid an dog with exceptional conformation should seem to glide across the ground
effortless in his stride"

Here is a good point breakdown for adba shows. http://www.adba.cc/p_pdetails.asp?fpid=32

[SouthernDixie]

I did notice at the ADBA show I went to recently that the biggest firecrackers in the ring won 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place (in the particular one I watched)

[MrsDanos Back]

a good judge is suppsoed to be able to tell if a dog is actually conditioned or starved just by looking ... allthough some colors are harder to show because they do not show the muscle definition like others ..
Brindle???

[rocksteady]

. Your dog is not judged against the dogs in the ring, they are judged by breed standards. I have been to many shows where no-one in the ring took first, no-ones dog met breed standard.
no, they are all also judged agaisnt each other... how do you think the judge pics 1, 2, 3 in a tight class??

and not getting a ribbon? Hmmm .. .. Ive been to dog shows where there is ONE or two dogs in a class and regardless they all get placed....

what shows have u been to out of curiosity where no one placed in a class?

[devinben3]

Brindle???
Yes brindle tends to not show muscle def as much as say a "buckskin" would. But it also depends on what brindle your talking about...red brindles seem to show more than a black brindle...Also, blacks tend to be a bit harder to see too. Some whites with patches can be decieving too...just depends on the dog. I would say that the easiest color to tell muscle def in is a red/buckskin/fawn dog. But judges know this.

[twiztidpitz]

Some of those questions, I was wondering my self! I like the judges that come out and tell you what they want before the classes begin, that way you are ready when its your turn.

[SouthernDixie]

Yes brindle tends to not show muscle def as much as say a "buckskin" would. But it also depends on what brindle your talking about...red brindles seem to show more than a black brindle...Also, blacks tend to be a bit harder to see too. Some whites with patches can be decieving too...just depends on the dog. I would say that the easiest color to tell muscle def in is a red/buckskin/fawn dog. But judges know this.
Hmm... I've got a red male I want to show when he gets all his fur back...

And my chocolate female I want to take to fun shows. I don't know about all the UKC shows, but that's what she is registered. I just know that they don't hit Oklahoma too often and I'm too broke to travel. But I'd like to just see how she fairs in an ADBA show for the heck of it sometime. Is chocolate a tough color or no? Though it wouldn't matter in a fun show but JW.

[devinben3]

no, they are all also judged agaisnt each other... how do you think the judge pics 1, 2, 3 in a tight class??

and not getting a ribbon? Hmmm .. .. Ive been to dog shows where there is ONE or two dogs in a class and regardless they all get placed....

what shows have u been to out of curiosity where no one placed in a class?
I was wondering the same thing...because they are judging the dogs that best fit the standard...of course all dogs are going to have there faults in some way or another, but the dog that best fits the standard and acts how the judge wants him/her to act will win. I have seen dogs disqualified, but i have never seen any dog out of the class not win a ribbon, unless they were all disqualified...???

[catcher T]

I showed Great Danes for a few years, always AKC, I can only go by my experience with that. The one bitch I had was real dogged out, big head, broad chest. I would always put her up in front of the judges that liked an old german type style, usually the older judges. We would win every time. I usually would pay a handler in the big shows, the handlers liked taking her in, she loved to show. She was perfect in every way in the ring. I have also had Great Danes that I literally had to drag around the ring. picture that. I never had a handler meeting before the show, not familiar with that at all. In AKC the judge tells you what is expected as your trotting around the ring. I enjoyed it alot, but, got real tired of the politics. I knew I wasen't going to be a Great Dane breeder and figured what was the point of having a champion.

[devinben3]

Hmm... I've got a red male I want to show when he gets all his fur back...

And my chocolate female I want to take to fun shows. I don't know about all the UKC shows, but that's what she is registered. I just know that they don't hit Oklahoma too often and I'm too broke to travel. But I'd like to just see how she fairs in an ADBA show for the heck of it sometime. Is chocolate a tough color or no? Though it wouldn't matter in a fun show but JW.
Color doesn't/shouldn't matter. It's just some colors tend to be harder to tell muscle def. But choc is not a very difficult color. But there are different shades of choc, the lighter they are the easier it seems to be...but like i said before, it really depends on the dog and the light that day.

[MrsDanos Back]

Yes brindle tends to not show muscle def as much as say a "buckskin" would. But it also depends on what brindle your talking about...red brindles seem to show more than a black brindle...Also, blacks tend to be a bit harder to see too. Some whites with patches can be decieving too...just depends on the dog. I would say that the easiest color to tell muscle def in is a red/buckskin/fawn dog. But judges know this.
My Brindle is Black on light if there's such thing with a white patch across the back of her neck and on her chest....She's in heat right now so you can't really see her muscle tone in that area but I was lookin a her today and her shoulder's look awsome...but once this heat is over she and I are gonna start walks everyday and hopefully get to running.....I was on a drug (birth control lol, so you don't think I am a drugy) that made me gain weight and now I am not on it so I want it all gone.

[rocksteady]

Is chocolate a tough color or no? Though it wouldn't matter in a fun show but JW.
Just have her in top notch condition (meaning conditioned right!) Chocolate can be depending on the shade but the judges kow



However, I would like to point something out. Showing is and should be for fun. These are still working dogs and thats where their merit should be placed..in the working department and not on how pretty they are. Showing pups is good for their socialization skills, u get a better idea of what a conditioned dog looks like, a good thing for the family to get involved with, hang out with friends.. but again, it shouldt be used as an excuse to breed nor should one strickly breed for show dogs...

[catcher T]

no, they are all also judged agaisnt each other... how do you think the judge pics 1, 2, 3 in a tight class??

and not getting a ribbon? Hmmm .. .. Ive been to dog shows where there is ONE or two dogs in a class and regardless they all get placed....

what shows have u been to out of curiosity where no one placed in a class?
I have seen a few where no-one got first, they got second and third. never disqualified just not a ribbon. The only time any dog would get disqualified is if they tried to bite or there was some obvious alter to the dog. The show where no-one got first there were only 2-4 dogs in the ring.

[SouthernDixie]

Just have her in top notch condition (meaning conditioned right!) Chocolate can be depending on the shade but the judges kow



However, I would like to point something out. Showing is and should be for fun. These are still working dogs and thats where their merit should be placed..in the working department and not on how pretty they are. Showing pups is good for their socialization skills, u get a better idea of what a conditioned dog looks like, a good thing for the family to get involved with, hang out with friends.. but again, it shouldt be used as an excuse to breed nor should one strickly breed for show dogs...
Oh yea I'd definitely be doing it for fun. My mother is into showing cockers (yea yea I know lol) so I sort of have a slight interest. But I want to do it just to see what might happen ya know? I have my first club meeting this comming Saturday!!! Hoping to get the pup started in on weight pull - and he can show too when he's bored lol.

[14rock]

However, I would like to point something out. Showing is and should be for fun. These are still working dogs and thats where their merit should be placed..in the working department and not on how pretty they are. Showing pups is good for their socialization skills, u get a better idea of what a conditioned dog looks like, a good thing for the family to get involved with, hang out with friends.. but again, it shouldt be used as an excuse to breed nor should one strickly breed for show dogs...
Exactly. Thanks for posting this before I got around to it rocksteady ;)

[devinben3]

hmmm, i have showed in AKC, adba and have never seen that...but anyways, i have seen dogs in the AKC get disqualified for numerous things, such as weight, height..in the AKC, they have a height stick...at least for the cairn terriers and cocker spaniels we showed. A dog that was limping excused. Aggressiveness towards humans in most breeds would be a reason to disqalify...However, i have seen a judge that liked the "proctection" dogs...to be weary or even growl at the judge...he carried a stick with him when judging and sure enough he would pick the dog that gave him a certain look or even growled at him...strange, but some breeds i guess are suppossed to protect there handler and that's what he wanted to see...but this doesn't go for the apbt...as they are NOT protection dogs...anyways, yes rocksteady is right about shows just be for fun and a good socialization tool for pups or even older dogs with other humans. You should NOT breed based on shows alone. Keep showing your dog fun at all times! In the AKC, half the dogs hate to be there and when they finish there championship it's off to a heavy breeding career...which sucks. The AKC is no fun anymore, unfortuenly most of the time a professional handler will win everything even if the dog is obviously not the best thing in the ring. They are about money money and more money.

[SouthernDixie]

I'm not showing to get titles to "make it okay" to breed. IF I were going to breed, I'd get tighter bred working dogs, and once they prove themselves to be quality breeding material then I might only consider breeding. Breeding right now for me = big no no.

I just thought it would be nice to see what a judge may think of my dog appearance wise... For me to make a career out of showing... I'd get a Staffy.

[devinben3]

I'm not showing to get titles to "make it okay" to breed. IF I were going to breed, I'd get tighter bred working dogs, and once they prove themselves to be quality breeding material then I might only consider breeding. Breeding right now for me = big no no.

I just thought it would be nice to see what a judge may think of my dog appearance wise... For me to make a career out of showing... I'd get a Staffy.
Yes, showing is very fun and great for your dogs! Great for the handler too, you get to meet a lot of fellow dog lovers! Just have fun and good luck!

[SouthernDixie]

Great for the handler too, you get to meet a lot of fellow dog lovers!
My main goal :)

[Jenn]

Nice Information ~ Thanks :)


That brings me to the next question. "Out of control dogs". First and foremost I have bulldogs, I don't show UKC so I don't expect my dogs to act like UKC dogs. Usually the judges like little firecrackers although I was informed the ADBA is going away from that (hence our reason to start showing AADR as well and do less traveling for ADBA shows.) The NC show is a prime example of judges that don't want "out of control dogs" although it isn't out of control, because we have control of the dogs. Anyhow, the judge will advice you of that issue in the handlers meeting as well.


Thanks for the answer. Which brings me back to the question in my mind.. Understandably when showing an APBT that dog aggression could be an issue, along with hyperness, or etc. I still find it surprisinging though, that some wouldn't expect more obedience while on leash and being "presented" for lack of a better word. How could their be any "showing" going on, if everyone's dogs were all hopping around, pulling, and lunging at each other while on leash? I know it's not every dog, but don't understand how in that controlled "ring" environment something like that would be considered "acceptable" regardless of breed? Wouldn't it be the owner's responsibilty to other's as well as themselves to be able to have proper control over their dog?

Same goes as the "stick carrier judge" wanting the dog to growl? Same scenario ~ why would he pick the dog that growled? Shouldn't a properly trained "protection dog" NOT be growling at just anyone, much less showing "fear" of just a man walking by with a stick? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but wouldn't that be more of a show of fear, instead of protection? :confused: Especially in a show ring?



However, I would like to point something out. Showing is and should be for fun. These are still working dogs and thats where their merit should be placed..in the working department and not on how pretty they are. Showing pups is good for their socialization skills, u get a better idea of what a conditioned dog looks like, a good thing for the family to get involved with, hang out with friends.. but again, it shouldt be used as an excuse to breed nor should one strickly breed for show dogs...

I agree, well said Rocksteady. Sadly that falls on too many "deaf ears".....