true/desired nature

[IV Ecosse]

thought this could be a good conversation piece for people from both points of view.

how do you want your dogs to behave around other dogs? stay true to sbt nature and be wary of other dogs or act like alot of the "a-frame weight pull dogs" and be non-dog aggressive

surely the second view goes against the true nature of the breed what people are striving for. so are they essentially not breeding true to origional type?

would really appreciate the input of experinced owners

[littleblackdog]

I will never punish my dogs on how they act except if they growl at a human (only in public, at home they are just protecting their territory)besides that I let them be theirselves. Dog on dog aggression is not encourage or discourage on this yard. The personalities are so strong in most of our dogs trying to change them would be cruel. People breeding the APBT for non dog aggressive APBT is not a fancier of the breed but a "cur" themselves and have no place owning these dogs. Original purpose of the dog should always be preserve to the best of our abilities without breaking the laws of the corupt US government. I wish I could match my dogs but I have kids, a wife and dogs to protect and if I broke those laws it would change my life forever, dogs are my #1 hobby but making sure I don't get in trouble for owning a FN dog is the #1 concern as a father and husband so I hunt with them to try to keep as much of the original APBT traits in them. Guys you don't have to jeopardize your life to stay true to breed but you have to cull twice as hard when you see things in these untested dogs. Keep scratchin and keeping the true APBT alive the best you can.

[MCS]

Great post lbd

[Davey]

Is aggression toward other dogs not a result of environment and the own dogs experience? Ability being a different matter and more down to its breeding? :confused:

[Bobby Rooster]

IMO I don't like stupid fight crazy dogs... And I don't like punk pushovers that are scarred.... I PREFER a dog to be aware but somewhat ignore all other things outside of being in a hunt...Gameness and Dog Aggression have nothing to do with each other. Those are MY Preferences.

[Dream Pits]

dogs are individuals. dog aggression is part of the breed but at the end of the day that means nothing. all tha barking and lunging mean nothin once the chains are off, so i let them be themselves.

[ccourtcleve]

It's an interesting question. The APBT was not bred for dog aggression, it was bred for gameness. I think the terms are interchanged sometimes when they shouldn't be. As stated above, I also do not like the extremely dog aggressive dog. But just because a dog is calm around other dogs does not have anything to do with its "gameness" or does it mean it was not bred true to the standard.

[New England]

good post lbd

[coop-dog]

I for one like the style my Lucy dog has she doesnt carry on all crazy,but she is definetly ready to rumble.She stands as ridig as can be and starts wining and its as if nothing else exists.Yet with people and kids is absolutley bomb proof.To me they should definetly have apathy towards other dogs and should not be discouraged.That being said its not somthing I encourage.

[jake]

i don't have a lot of use for a dog that isn't interested in scrapping with anything on four legs. proper training etc can make it controllable.
it seems the popular trend to have a lab in stafford clothing.

[coop-dog]

Aint that the truth jake. When I used to hang around the ckc dog shows .I would get so pissed when people would frown upon a dog with fire in its belly.I was always good for a heated debate though,then I would get somthing like now wounder your dog acts like that.

[bionic]

As others have said, I like my dogs to be aware of other dogs but not to be necessarily fixated on them and straining at their leashes to get at them. Quietly confident but not aggressive.

[odinslad]

Well its all in the training & upbringing of your dog , i myself cant take the chance of anyform of real aggretion as i have 4 kids at home with other dogs but its all in the training of your dog , basicly if you want a real game dog you have got one if you do your homework right as we all know but its then in the dog , but if you want your dog as a family pet then the best advice i can give you is 3 simple things
1 show your dog love
2 feed your dog
3 go out plenty of walks with your dog

& if these are done then you shouldnt have any real problem with the dog , also let your dog of the leed to mix with other dogs at a young age but if you see a dog your not to sure off then put the dog on the lead as the last thing you want is for your dog to have a bad experiance with another dog that can lead to problems in years to come with other dogs , but remember these are my own thoughts also listen to people like LBD as what he has said is true . but remember when my dogs start playing they can co over the top at times its just staffs for you but they know their place indoors

[jake]

i would suggest that if a person is not willing and / or able to deal with the characteristics of a historical fighting dog, they should pick another breed instead of selecting "historically inaccurate" dogs, or at the very least refer to dogs who do not carry the traits of the historical sbt as the modern specimens they are and not try to use the guise of the now popular blanket of "old style" (or whatever term they want to use) of sbt. the terms "game" and "dog aggressive" certainly are not the same nor are they inter-changeable, but you can't have a dog who is "game" if that dog is not happy to and willing to start a fight. the idea of a "fight finishing" dog who is calm, cool, collected and never starts a fight sounds great, but in reality a "good finishing" dog also should be a "good starting" dog. every dog who wants to fight may not be "game" or even a good fighter, but you can't have a good game fighter who does not want to get into a fight.
and just to clarify, a high level of dog aggression does not translate to any level of people aggression.
a lack of proper food, exercise and attention will result in an un-socialized misfit. food, attention and exercise will not "cure" inherited traits like the desire to engage other dogs in combat. dog aggression is a trait like any other that can (and in the case of the historically accurate sbt, should) be bred for, culled against and passed on. dog aggression can be taught through training or experience / environment, but in it's purest form, is passed on from generation to generation.
at the end of the day, ability and gameness don't even enter the equation without the dog being "dog aggressive" enough to get in the fight in the first place.
sorry for the long post.

[Bobby Rooster]

Good post Jake. IMO enough DA to me means an alert aware and confident dog when out side the woods, BUT that when taken to the woods he is ALL willing, able ready and eager to hunt with the best of em'. To others DA enough may mean a whole lot more interest when out of the woods. But none the less a really good post, props man.

[Tigerlines]

i would suggest that if a person is not willing and / or able to deal with the characteristics of a historical fighting dog, they should pick another breed instead of selecting "historically inaccurate" dogs, or at the very least refer to dogs who do not carry the traits of the historical sbt as the modern specimens they are and not try to use the guise of the now popular blanket of "old style" (or whatever term they want to use) of sbt. the terms "game" and "dog aggressive" certainly are not the same nor are they inter-changeable, but you can't have a dog who is "game" if that dog is not happy to and willing to start a fight. the idea of a "fight finishing" dog who is calm, cool, collected and never starts a fight sounds great, but in reality a "good finishing" dog also should be a "good starting" dog. every dog who wants to fight may not be "game" or even a good fighter, but you can't have a good game fighter who does not want to get into a fight.
and just to clarify, a high level of dog aggression does not translate to any level of people aggression.
a lack of proper food, exercise and attention will result in an un-socialized misfit. food, attention and exercise will not "cure" inherited traits like the desire to engage other dogs in combat. dog aggression is a trait like any other that can (and in the case of the historically accurate sbt, should) be bred for, culled against and passed on. dog aggression can be taught through training or experience / environment, but in it's purest form, is passed on from generation to generation.
at the end of the day, ability and gameness don't even enter the equation without the dog being "dog aggressive" enough to get in the fight in the first place.
sorry for the long post.

good post, ... most people are able to manage a fit athletic stafford in a family environment, with other animals, and kids through socialisation, exercise and training.......but a performance bred stafford true to type operates on a different level to a family pet dog, its bull and terrier instincts are heightened above and beyond what most people consider manageable , or controllable in modern society.......they dont just crave physical exercise and interaction, they crave to fight at every opportunity.....its easier to believe that empty vessels make the most noise, and that a good stafford is well behaved and controllable through training, will nanny the kids, and only fight if pushed,.....but a performance bred animal is highly strung and desires to express its instincts constantly.......most people like the idea of a true to type stafford but not the reality and responsibilty which comes with owning such animals, they would rather have a athletic type which looks the part but doesnt require any where near the same effort and commitment to own.

[hammer head]

true game dog is a nightmare to own. now & again a quite honest worker will be whelped but thats not the rule. As for the fastlane.......most staffs and pits dont quite cut it.

Redboy/yankee/yellow

bellon/boyles/bolio

breed them so they cross the line and not stand the line..........

[sidonis]

my English staffordshire pup is easier to handle around other dogs than my last pitbull, he has backed down to older dogs which my pitbull never done even as pup, he was a hard dog to handle in the company of other dogs, he'd foam at the mouth and really want to get them, on the few occassions he did get to them, if the other dog made no sound or move on him he would just knock them down and walk off, heheh, but some of these jack russels went straight into his mouth and he'd just start choking them...........luckily I taught him to let go.........with alot of work.
I would rather have adog with all the fire of old..................but you have to be on the ball and a responsible owner with these dogs.

[rikjd]

my staff bitch is good with other dogs generally but if she senses a challenge to her authority all hell breaks loose no matter what shes up against, for me thats what i look for, shes more interested in chasing small furry things in the woods then playing with dogs but will tolerate their presence.

[MinorThreat]

Well its all in the training & upbringing of your dog , i myself cant take the chance of anyform of real aggretion as i have 4 kids at home with other dogs but its all in the training of your dog , basicly if you want a real game dog you have got one if you do your homework right as we all know but its then in the dog , but if you want your dog as a family pet then the best advice i can give you is 3 simple things
1 show your dog love
2 feed your dog
3 go out plenty of walks with your dog

& if these are done then you shouldnt have any real problem with the dog , also let your dog of the leed to mix with other dogs at a young age but if you see a dog your not to sure off then put the dog on the lead as the last thing you want is for your dog to have a bad experiance with another dog that can lead to problems in years to come with other dogs , but remember these are my own thoughts also listen to people like LBD as what he has said is true . but remember when my dogs start playing they can co over the top at times its just staffs for you but they know their place indoors

lol is that how it is, not in the real world anyway. Doesnt make a difference to me, they can be piss mean or kick back, I dont prefer loud mouths though.

[reids]

lol is that how it is, not in the real world anyway. Doesnt make a difference to me, they can be piss mean or kick back, I dont prefer loud mouths though.

second that a cant stand loud mouths eather

[shatoe]

fearless confidence is what I like to see.I don't mind a little DA, as it is part of breed.But too much DA makes me question confidence.I prefer a dog that can be walked past a non DA dog without a problem.But at the first sign of a threat they react with the desire to remove said threat and never stop wagging there tail.I do not match dogs because I don't like jail.That being said I prefer a dog that loves to fight not one that just hates other dogs.JMO:dogtongue:

[Butch&Luna mmmm]

i want to put my point in the ring hehe

in my eyes its not important if the dog is friendly to other dogs outside, my butch would attack each other male dog if its a great dane or a yorkshire is the same aggression outside and in his territory, hes driving crazy with dogs and be high aggressive, but now comes my point: at first its not important if the dog is high aggressive to other dogs but he must be always be humanfriendly and also chilfriendly. and the second point is: the dog can be high aggressive ton other dogs like he want to be, but the dog musst stand in my command, he have to accept that i`m the leader and when i say "butch stop that, common boy" then he is quiet and we go away with no trouble. the dog must always stand in good command then you can have a good good life with your "animaleater".

I think no one should change the dogs spirit just to have an easier time outside, everyone should do the best to raise and train his dog at its best

[shatoe]

I think you misunderstood my point.It's about a confident attitude.A confident dog is a sound dog IMO.I am not talking about changing anything only breeding sound animals.The rule of thumb that I use is not my own.It comes from reading and listening to the thoughts of dogmen who made the breed what it is.As far as training, not everyone can be a dog wisperer.Many people have been injured trying to imitate this method of training.Sounds to me like you don't really have a DA dog.If you can just say stop that.

[hammer head]

box dog without testing = pitbull

pitbull without testing = amstaff

SBT without testing = toy breed

there is no substitute for gameness......any one whose thinks different is a fool.:mad:

[reids]

to fuckin right no petbulls only PITbulls:D

[XXLbully]

its all bout how you raise em.

no jk, tired of that sh

[reids]

what u mean by that?

[Butch&Luna mmmm]

@shatoe
I know what i`ve got that you can believe me;)
but when i sAY STOP THEN IS STOP in 90%.
with good training you can become everything and for this you dont must be a dogwhisperer thats bullshit

[jack the lad]

What a load of bullshit I've got 4 all raised the same and all with dif levels of DA.

[QUO
TE=XXLbully;526020]its all bout how you raise em.

no jk, tired of that sh[/QUOTE]

[reids]

U beat me to it lol

[jack the lad]

Reids I was not going to post anything about this but after seeing that load of bull I could not help my self lol:dogkiss:

U beat me to it lol

[XXLbully]

What a load of bullshit I've got 4 all raised the same and all with dif levels of DA.

[QUO
TE=XXLbully;526020]its all bout how you raise em.

no jk, tired of that sh[/QUOTE]

not sure U got the irony in my statement.

[tamthebam]

They are changing the dangerous dogs act in the UK. The law will no longer be Breed Specific but if your dog shows any sign of aggression to humans or other animals in public or EVEN ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY! then the authorities will have the power to confiscate your dog. In other words you can keep dogs but they better be absolutely bombproof in their behaviour.

[reids]

and fa told u that like ??????i cant find nothin saying that:confused::confused:

[tamthebam]

Sorry Reids I think it's only north of the border.

[reids]

nae doubt lol:D

[blanch]

its down here too.
it also puts the power to confiscate and rehome dogs in the hands of police and council workers.

i'll try an find a link.

[blanch]

Dog Control Bill [HL] (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200809/ldbills/009/09009.i-i.html#j002)

[tamthebam]

Aha! it"s not up here yet! thanks blanch

[reids]

so are thay going to change the law on the dangeruse dogs act or are thay keepin it a see on that propsels sheet that it says repeal or sumthing what does it mean

[tamthebam]

Reids, it means that it' s scrapped.

[jake]

whatever law be damned. there is still no good reason to settle for dogs that are not historical representatives. dogs from fighting heritage need dog aggression. if you can't appreciate and live with that trait you are in the wrong breed.
people who are willing to change a breed trait to fit the whims of a by-law or to make it more easily handled or whatever reason are the same as the people who have wrecked so many breeds before in the name of convenience. it is no secret that a DA dog is much more to handle than one who is not, no one ever said this type of dog was a good fit for everyone. it is a good fit for those who think the effort is worth it.

[blanch]

well if the law says any dog showing any aggression in any circumstances will be taken away by council workers,thats going to make life damn near impossible for anyone who doesnt live in the middle of nowhere (which also is getting harder in this overcrowded immigrant ridden shit-hole of an island)

[12 gauge]

i dont feed dogs with civil drive, they just dont stay around to pass the genes on. a dog showing HA should be pts in my opinion, i got no use for a dog like that no matter how good the hound is.
if this law takes place it'll be impossible to own any dog in the UK as dogs show some type of aggression toward other dogs at any given time to stablish some kind of hierarchy no matter the breed. shit for the looks of it next thing will be the cats taken away for showing aggression to the poor mice and rats.

[tamthebam]

The authorities made this change in the law because they know that a lot of people who own these type of dogs are ignorant and stupid! They will make it easy for the authorities to take their dogs as they haven't got a clue. They hang around street corners intimidating people with their fat dogs which they feed on chips and never exercise!

[blanch]

no the authorities made this law to take away one of the last ways an englishman can legally defend himself (pp dogs).

this video helps explain;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMEmW4Ua_mk&feature=player_embedded

[tamthebam]

I watched the video Blanch, interesting stuff. But as the guy in the video says" if you own a dog then you are responsible for it"! The stupid owners were always going to have their dogs confiscated anyway. The owners of the REAL DOGS are usually more responsible and discreet. I mean when I was a youngster in the seventies, it was rare to see a Bull Terrier of any type! But we know they were there, don't we? Anyway, respect

[jacko]

hello every one my name is jacko let me tell a little about myself i got my first staff in 1985 . a right bundle of livewire .had him for 17 years moses his name was . i bred a couple of litters from him and now i have 2 bitches . cj is 15 and moocha is 13 . i enjoy the forum .some real nice dogs .i am just learning how to use a pc .but i hope to get chtting soon .keep the faith jacko.

[tamthebam]

Welcome Jacko!