Looking for a show quality show dog

[old time dogman]

Hey Guys Im looking for a bitch pup of show quality . any good kennels that you guys know of ?

[yoel]

Hey Guys Im looking for a bitch pup of show quality . any good kennels that you guys know of ?

Welcome to Kadillac Kennels, Vallejo CA | American Pit Bull Terriers (http://kadillackennels.com/)

They have some cool looking dogs. Don't know much about them, I stumbled upon their site a while ago.


Ravenloft Kennels - Males (http://www.ravenloftkennels.com/males.htm)

There are some really cool dogs on this "working and show dog" kennel's page

[venom]

i think hes lookin for staffords bro

[synno2004]

Hey Guys Im looking for a bitch pup of show quality . any good kennels that you guys know of ?

Not a kennel but know someone who is really good handler and has pups occasionally. She is really nice, helpful and honest, from my own experience of course. She competes in obedience, conformation, and weightpull.

Karen Dawes she lives somewhere in San Diego, might want to hit a couple of weight pull competition. RIP CURL i believe is the name of the club UKC sanctioned. Good luck....

PM if you would like her contact information.

[old time dogman]

Yes english Staffords guys but thanks you so much for your help .

[RedTone]

Blastaway Kennels he has nothing but Champs so it might be hard to obtain one but it's worth a try.

[Ragingstorm]

If your looking for British Staffords, there is a fantastic and IMO the best Stafford show dog kennel in England if thats any use....not sure if you'd want one shipped over but im sure they'd be happy to talk with you if you wanted one. Let me know if you'd like the link.......they produce show Ch's regularly!

[sunbeam]

maybe its me but i think people are possibly getting mixed up by the word SHOW.perhaps i have it wrong.personally a dog that will do well at the kennel type club shows would be little use to anyone used to bulldogs , they would be a disappointment in every single way.these dogs are bred short and squat and would find it impossible to exercise like a bulldog should.
unless otd of course is getting too old and is looking for a more sedate life these days :-)

[Ragingstorm]

Sorry just to clarify, Im not suggesting a short squat dog, I have no experience with those things.....Im talking about lean and athletic staffords, the only type I have experience with at athletic shows. :)

[sunbeam]

maybe otd could clarify exactly what he is looking for, as there are vast differences between types of stafford over here.

[old time dogman]

Dog show quality . I have APBTs for the Go type Show And as good as Staffs are at the go type they dont compare to APBTs . Thanks guys

[sunbeam]

[QUOTE=old time dogman;426966]Dog show quality . I have APBTs for the Go type Show And as good as Staffs are at the go type they dont compare to APBTs . Thanks guys[/QUOTE

i have got to agree, just so you know otd, some of the advise given on the other forum is no good to you as those were "go" staffords not "show" staffords.i guess a few lads got mixed up same as i did :-)
best of luck finding what you are after

[Ragingstorm]

I agree. But these IMO are both "show" and "go" if you'd like to check them out anyway.

Riskys Staffords Home (http://www.riskysstaffords.co.uk/index.html)

[sunbeam]

i doubt G's dogs would be competative in the US show ring, the judges over there seem to prefer an even stockier, bullier animal than the ones over here do.
i do like the look of them though for sure.

[Ragingstorm]

Ahhh im with you! In which case good luck on finding your Stafford of choice OTD.
Yes these Staffords are lovely, have admired them for a long time and from decent breeders too.

[Yas]

As already said Karen Dawes has pretty good dogs.

A dog that wins shows in England looks totally different to the 1`s that win shows in the US, British Staffords have to be fit for function ie. even though they are only being shown they have to look like they could do the job that they were originally bred for. Being an American Ch. doesn`t mean anything, if you show your dog enough in the US it will be a Ch.

I have an English import of 2 yrs old that has recently been bred with a couple of good bitches with UK dogs behind them, if you would like me to put you in touch send me a PM.

[Ragingstorm]

We have two types of shows, the athletic ones where a dogs does need to look fit for purpose and then the "pretty dog" Kennel Club shows where a typical Staffordshire Bull Terrier looks like this.

http://www.puppyplanet.co.uk/images/dogs/4841.jpg

[sunbeam]

As already said Karen Dawes has pretty good dogs.

A dog that wins shows in England looks totally different to the 1`s that win shows in the US, British Staffords have to be fit for function ie. even though they are only being shown they have to look like they could do the job that they were originally bred for. Being an American Ch. doesn`t mean anything, if you show your dog enough in the US it will be a Ch.

I have an English import of 2 yrs old that has recently been bred with a couple of good bitches with UK dogs behind them, if you would like me to put you in touch send me a PM.



the whole fit for function stuff is a joke, the dogs in the uk are not shown in fit and healthy condition on the whole.
i think that crap all came about through a documentary that blew the show world and the breeders of show dogs ethics apart.the dogs here as as squat and unhealthy as anywhere else they are shown in my honest opinion.
sorry for going off topic otd and sorry i can not help more .

[nasher]

the whole fit for function stuff is a joke, the dogs in the uk are not shown in fit and healthy condition on the whole.
i think that crap all came about through a documentary that blew the show world and the breeders of show dogs ethics apart.the dogs here as as squat and unhealthy as anywhere else they are shown in my honest opinion.
sorry for going off topic otd and sorry i can not help more .

well said sunbeam my exact thoughts:(

[Yas]

That depends which dog`s you`re looking at.


There are dog`s that are way too over done and there are dog`s that are supposed to be "working dogs" that are way too skinny that are put on exercise programs that stop them carrying their natural and optimal amount of muscle. I think if you take a better look you will find Staffords being shown in KC shows that may not be the big winner`s but whose owners are determined to have them "fighting fit".

[12 gauge]

Hey Guys Im looking for a bitch pup of show quality . any good kennels that you guys know of ?

wont be hard to find as mostly everybody is into showing their staffords in the ring here in the US and nothing more, a real shame as their are other legal venues to have fun with them in my opinion.

here's a link http://www.staffordmall.com/staffordlinks.htm

[sunbeam]

some more

Staffordshire Bull Terrier - Stafford Mall - USA Breeders. (http://www.staffordmall.com/usabreeders.htm)

[BKNLS]

ebonyhills.net

[nasher]

That depends which dog`s you`re looking at.


There are dog`s that are way too over done and there are dog`s that are supposed to be "working dogs" that are way too skinny that are put on exercise programs that stop them carrying their natural and optimal amount of muscle. I think if you take a better look you will find Staffords being shown in KC shows that may not be the big winner`s but whose owners are determined to have them "fighting fit".

I would love to find a kennel club show in the uk that have there dogs conditioned as fighting fit as it would be one big step forward

[Yas]

This is Jayneze Pillow Talk
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/yasparr/denzel5.jpg
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/yasparr/denzeloct08freestand.jpg
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/yasparr/denzel08.jpg

This is Cragails Dancing Brave
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/yasparr/Dylan4.jpg
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/yasparr/Dylan2.jpg
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/yasparr/Dylan1.jpg

This is his sister Cragails Get A Grip
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/yasparr/tug.jpg

And this is their litter sister Cragails Indian Summer
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/yasparr/indy.jpg

This is an example of an American Ch. there`s a big difference
http://www.blackstonestaffords.net/page6.php

[Yas]

Sorry mistake, Cragails Get A Grip is his brother not sister.

[sunbeam]

to be honest none strike me as being in particularly great shape, the american dog is very overdone but this is what happens when dogs are bred for a trot down a ring a distance of 20 feet or so.i am sure many american kennels breed a less beefed up dog than that, yankeestaff dogs i remember as being lighter built for definate.

[Yas]

to be honest none strike me as being in particularly great shape, the american dog is very overdone but this is what happens when dogs are bred for a trot down a ring a distance of 20 feet or so.i am sure many american kennels breed a less beefed up dog than that, yankeestaff dogs i remember as being lighter built for definate.

Yankeestaff have a bad name for being very poor.

The dog`s pictured are in very good shape.

The problem with most "working" Staffords in the UK is their owners just like old time Pit Bull owners know very little about conditioning and think that to correctly condition a Stafford you run it 10 miles a day. The problem there is that not only is your dog not reaching his genetic potential and carrying his natural and optimal amount of muscle but he is training aerobically and so becoming slower and weaker.

Anyway this thread aint about conditioning, I left a post as the OP wanted a show Stafford in the US.

[dannyboy]

Yankeestaff have a bad name for being very poor.

The dog`s pictured are in very good shape.

The problem with most "working" Staffords in the UK is their owners just like old time Pit Bull owners know very little about conditioning and think that to correctly condition a Stafford you run it 10 miles a day. The problem there is that not only is your dog not reaching his genetic potential and carrying his natural and optimal amount of muscle but he is training aerobically and so becoming slower and weaker.

Anyway this thread aint about conditioning, I left a post as the OP wanted a show Stafford in the US.
If your after a good show stafford...thaen Yas would be good to talk to....by te way Yas, what are you doing here?

[Yas]

If your after a good show stafford...thaen Yas would be good to talk to....by te way Yas, what are you doing here?

Alright mate, is that Dan1?

I`m on here cos this seems to be the place to get good stuff eg. 2nd hand slat mills etc. plus i`ve just started writing my book on conditioning (probably won`t be done for about a year) so the more people that know me the better.

[dannyboy]

Alright mate, is that Dan1?

I`m on here cos this seems to be the place to get good stuff eg. 2nd hand slat mills etc. plus i`ve just started writing my book on conditioning (probably won`t be done for about a year) so the more people that know me the better.
Be interested to have a look mate...good luck with it, knowing you im sure you will have written some good info, worth bearing in mind.
Cheers Dan

[jack the lad]

There are a couple of people on the uk show scene that keep there dogs in good shape:)but still not top winning dogs but others just keep the food off a couple of days before a show just so the dog tucks up:(and the amount of times I've heard show people say I don't like them to show rib or that dog's showing to much rib :rolleyes:

[Yas]

There are a couple of people on the uk show scene that keep there dogs in good shape:)but still not top winning dogs but others just keep the food off a couple of days before a show just so the dog tucks up:(and the amount of times I've heard show people say I don't like them to show rib or that dog's showing to much rib :rolleyes:

Yeah mate you`re right but in the US (show Staffords) they call being fat having "substance". There are some here that use carpet mills etc. but I think those people are few and far between.

[gog123]

yas what do you mean by writing a book on conditioning?

Those staffords pictured above imo look like they getting close to being pugs? Such short muzzles, think working breeds should be bred based on the work. Best to best to stop the breeds all ending up like british bulldogs.

I even think athletic dog show owners shouldnt breed. Far to many staffords and other dogs in rescues including pups which can be put to use at those sort of shows.

[Yas]

yas what do you mean by writing a book on conditioning?

Those staffords pictured above imo look like they getting close to being pugs? Such short muzzles, think working breeds should be bred based on the work. Best to best to stop the breeds all ending up like british bulldogs.

I even think athletic dog show owners shouldnt breed. Far to many staffords and other dogs in rescues including pups which can be put to use at those sort of shows.

Alright mate, yeah i`m writing a book on dog conditioning, it`s gotta be the the most in depth book so far so it`s gonna take a while.

I respect your opinion and do disagree with it in regards to the above dogs as they are bang on standard and most people would say the perfect blend of bull & terrier. However there are many show dogs that do resemble to type that you say and could never do the job they they were originally intended for.

Also some very valid points in regards to breeding in the UK especially, rescues are being over-run with Staffords through no fault of their own.

[sunbeam]

yas what do you mean by writing a book on conditioning?

Those staffords pictured above imo look like they getting close to being pugs? Such short muzzles, think working breeds should be bred based on the work. Best to best to stop the breeds all ending up like british bulldogs.

I even think athletic dog show owners shouldnt breed. Far to many staffords and other dogs in rescues including pups which can be put to use at those sort of shows.


i totally agree, bulging eyes and short faces were what struck me first, i do not believe they are pure bred staffords, they are not what i remember from my childhood, i prefer dogs to look like warriors not french bulldogs/pugs.they are still far far too heavy for me. yas if they are what you consider conditioned then i would question your ability to write a book on the subject, that is not meant as nasty it is just how i would see it.have you conditioned any dogs we may have heard of ? not a bad point made by gog about show dog breeders not breeding, empty the breed rescues first.now this has gone off topic i would hope OTD has gained enough links so he can find what he requires.

[matty]

Even though i appreciate the dogs pictured look in good condition, better than a lot of dogs around, regardless of type, they look fit and healthy but dont look fighting fit in lean very hard condition, having said that you cannot judge by photos. But hats off to the owners and conditioners of the dogs for at least making them look fit and healthy, it will be interesting to see what is written in your book. I think if you look carefully past the crap and bullshit there are some very good dog persons on this board that know alot about conditioning a dog to its potential. Look forward to hearing more from you as i dont visit bbo much anymore.

[peppapig]

conditioning book by a man who has show type staffords....ermmmmm.......will this book be all your own methods??tried and tested by you on those show staffords?? cos feck me.....theres healthy looking.....and theres conditioned healthy!!....and id be surprised if those staffords could ever run flat out for 20mins.....without going blue in the tounge and choking....but....its gave me a good laugh today...thanks...;)

[Lipcurl]

Any pics YAS of your dogs so we can see where the inspiration of this book has come from ?

Thanks.

[shadowwolf]

http://www.blessingkennel.org - Cathy has some WONDERFUL dogs. She'd be one to go to.

[peppapig]

for the attention of the original poster..... http://www.staffordshirebullterrier.animalpedigree.com/modules/animal/latest.php ....hope this helps out in some way....

[jjbulls]

I think you will find that the stafford show ring which promots the K.C. standard is basically ..a load of inbred little fat dogs.. that are good for nothing else than to be a lap dog..! on the other hand ..we have many line bred staffords that are fit for purpose ..!! & can perform ...ive seen Ragingstorms dogs & they are defo performance dogs .. & not lap dogs..! they have..tons of drive & perform very well.. ! you sat skinney.. i say fit & in condition .. ;) this is our boy Spike from jjbulls http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/jjbulls/DSC00006-2.jpg

[jjbulls]

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/jjbulls/DSC01308.jpg

[jamiebosco]

Yankeestaff have a bad name for being very poor.

The dog`s pictured are in very good shape.

The problem with most "working" Staffords in the UK is their owners just like old time Pit Bull owners know very little about conditioning and think that to correctly condition a Stafford you run it 10 miles a day. The problem there is that not only is your dog not reaching his genetic potential and carrying his natural and optimal amount of muscle but he is training aerobically and so becoming slower and weaker.

Anyway this thread aint about conditioning, I left a post as the OP wanted a show Stafford in the US.

Yas,I've seen you write stuff similar to this before and it appears that you are trying to apply the training theories/principles of HUMAN athletes to canines,I'm not so sure it's as cut and dry as you make it out to be.Also I'm pretty sure the old timers had a good handle on getting the most out of their dogs.

[12 gauge]

my staffords are kc/akc dual registered and by no means lap dogs. I dont like staffords with barrel chests, short backs and necks (personal preference) I havent seen many that can keep up with much. most show staffords run out of air in the showring let alone performing in other legal venues, no matter how ripped they look, they still lack endurance and resistance. let's see some vids of those good looking staffords of ours, as they say actions speak louder than words and anything is better than nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CVAyvH2QQI

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/dlc0128/videos/th_PictureorVideo002.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/dlc0128/videos/th_PictureorVideo024.jpg

[Bastian]

I traveled to Birmingham in England this weekend - all the way from Norway - just to see the worlds biggest show of dogs - Crufts. And I got a positive surprise. There were more than 350 staffords there, and most of them looked fit and healthy. The top dogs were beautiful.

Of course I compare them to the standard of the KC and the FCI.

10 years ago I saw a lot of staffies looking like fat bulldogs and barrels, but I dont see many of these around anymore (in Norway).

[Blanco]

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad132/Akiva123/DSC_0073.jpg
Well, i'm not so impressed over the dogs at crufts. These dogs are way to overdone for my taste and i would guess they don't have the stamina to do more than walking around the ring. A couple of pics i found on another forum.
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad132/Akiva123/DSC_0013-1.jpg

[peppapig]

not one bit of tuck or definition in them 2 pics.....in good shape....my arse....:rolleyes:

[Bastian]

Blanco: You weren`t there, I was. I know who took these pictures - the person were sited next to me. The first picture was taken because he is the sire of her bitch, and none of these did well in the show.

There were a lot of goodlooking staffords who fits the standard (of course, it`s Crufts), but they are probably not the way you, or most people in here, like them to be.

And of course you are right - they will probably not have the same stamina as many of your dogs, but they are the perfect examples of a show-staff as this tread is about.

[Blanco]

I know they are showstaffs, but imo there are some far better show dogs out there that also fits the standard. And that's also a perfect example of the breed;)

[sunbeam]

some people just do not want to see the truth and refuse to at all cost.

[Ragingstorm]

I know they are showstaffs, but imo there are some far better show dogs out there that also fits the standard. And that's also a perfect example of the breed;)

:eek::eek:

I'd have to disagree im afraid. To be honest thats probably one of the worst ive seen.......that can not be classed as being in any kind of shape. :(

[Ragingstorm]

12 gauge, loving the vids. How high can Blake climb the tree? 2 of mine love scaling trees too.......theyre hitting about 10-12 ft into the tree, i'll have to video them and put it up. :)

[oldtymer]

KC has just about fucked up every breed of dog that is registered with them !!!! It really makes me laugh how these show people today can compare their small headed, bug eyed, belly to the ground snorting dogs as the stafford of old . Two trots around the ring and their blowing more steam than stephenson's rocket , yet the owners glorify in their dogs ancesters and how good the breed was when it was fighting in the pits, when they should be concentrating on breeding better healthier dogs than the standard set by the KC. At the end of the day what gives the person/s the right to set these stupid standards other than that they work for the kc and or are judges for the breed and that the mutts they breed are of the bug eye'd type.For me its just outragious that folks buy into this kc crap. Nothing more than unhealthy dogs are being bred day after day mostly to joe public who has'nt got a clue what they are buying other than they will be helping the vet have a large pay packet!! The only thing the kc has ever done and will continue to do is fuck up dogs so bad that one day a lot of breeds will be extinct,except of course for those breeding staffs and other breeds the RIGHT WAY :rolleyes:

[Blanco]

:eek::eek:

I'd have to disagree im afraid. To be honest thats probably one of the worst ive seen.......that can not be classed as being in any kind of shape. :(

Think you've got me wrong here. I don't like the pics of the dogs i posted but i ment that you'll find Kc staffs that are within the breeds standard and that will perform aswell. For example riskys staffords

[Bastian]

KC has just about fucked up every breed of dog that is registered with them !!!! It really makes me laugh how these show people today can compare their small headed, bug eyed, belly to the ground snorting dogs as the stafford of old . Two trots around the ring and their blowing more steam than stephenson's rocket , yet the owners glorify in their dogs ancesters and how good the breed was when it was fighting in the pits, when they should be concentrating on breeding better healthier dogs than the standard set by the KC. At the end of the day what gives the person/s the right to set these stupid standards other than that they work for the kc and or are judges for the breed and that the mutts they breed are of the bug eye'd type.For me its just outragious that folks buy into this kc crap. Nothing more than unhealthy dogs are being bred day after day mostly to joe public who has'nt got a clue what they are buying other than they will be helping the vet have a large pay packet!! The only thing the kc has ever done and will continue to do is fuck up dogs so bad that one day a lot of breeds will be extinct,except of course for those breeding staffs and other breeds the RIGHT WAY :rolleyes:

I do agree that KC has destroyed several breeds, but the FCI-standard that we follow in Norway is made to preserve the breed. They do not look like the dogs from ealy days, but they are still healty staffords. I am not that good to explain in english, but I do believe in this.

My dog is to tall for the standard, and I love them like he is. And I love the dogs on this forum, but there are dogs out there that is healthy as much as yours - maybe they dont run as far og jump that high, but they are still staffords.

A staffie is a staffie (if they are indeed a staffie)

[Ragingstorm]

Think you've got me wrong here. I don't like the pics of the dogs i posted but i ment that you'll find Kc staffs that are within the breeds standard and that will perform aswell. For example riskys staffords

My apologies I thought u were saying they were as capable as athletic staffords, as for Risky Staffords they would run rings around the dog pictured, Risky dogs are in a completely different league of Stafford.

[Blanco]

No worries;) Riskys staffords are som great looking dogs, and from what i've read they're doing very well on the athletic scene. Just mentioned them as a good example of the breed that can be shown and has the drives of a real staff

[12 gauge]

Ragingstorm thanks, i figure he can climb an average of 9-11 feet from few steps back. I'd love to see your dogs in action whenever you get some spare time.
Those dogs at crufts is like Andy said they just starve them over the weekend before the show so they try to make them look descent, at least that's what show fanciers choose to think, pathetic in my opinion.

[gog123]

who cares if a dog fits a standard or not? Id rather a dog do the job it was bred for than look like what some muppet thinks they should...the amount of shit poor quality staffords being bred is beyond a joke...thank god not everyone is blind or a few years down the line when the staffords gone like the bulldog people will be breeding loads of fancy named versions like the dorset and old tyme ect.
Ive been crufts type show with 2 mates..1 wasnt really into dogs but got us tickets for free so we went..he must of been bored out of his head...me and my mate spent over 2hours with the stafford owners winding the up and showing them up infront of a large growing crowd listening to us tell em how unathletic they lookd :D

[Bull and Terrier]

12 Gauge,

Great looking animals and actions def speak louder than words. Yours move great. Do you breed?

[12 gauge]

i do B & T, I breed to better what i alredy got and to keep back a dog(s) i like. did my last breeding oct last year looking for a good bitch but none were born only males, one is here in Arizona the other male went to Europe to a man with vermin problems, lets hope they turn out as good or better staffords than his parents.

[Lee D]

who cares if a dog fits a standard or not? Id rather a dog do the job it was bred for than look like what some muppet thinks they should...he said "muppet" :D...well worded

[Pirbul]

Its always important to have a dog without major faults or you'll have limitations on his performance. APBT standard is to have the total package dog that excels in the main traits.

[12 gauge]

do you mean what it used to be the [] standard?
you would never know if a dog is good or not just because if fits the standard, "beauty follows performance" past champions, pits or staffords werent necessary beautiful or met the standard for that matter. I believe the dog needs to be a balanced one, mentally and physically. for instance, the stafford standard prefers a dog of 14-16 inch and 38 lbs, for me its very hard to accomplish balance in a dog that short with that kind of weight. Most staffords of the past were in the range of 17-19 inch and from 35-40 lbs, give or take, some of them earned their living, now the staffords of today cheat their way through living.
although fights are ilegal nowadays, there are plenty of activities that could test your stafford mentally and physically. short, fat and squatty staffords arent near what their creators had in mind. I dont support any standard, and never will bunch of bs to me, if not look at he new bully pits getting registered as american pitbull terrier, more than a disgrace is pathetic if you ask me among other miserable breeds as result of tree huggers.

[Tigerlines]

the height size and weight ranges are nothing more than symantics, gameness is the only definable trait of a worth while stafford.and before any one claims rolling your stock and culling your stock is an illegal activity today , you should remember it has always been an illegal activity. Throughout these dogs history , that dilema has been faced by every breeder and preserver of a true stafford.

[12 gauge]

Really? if i understand your point right i got to disagree with you, but respect your opinion. I clearly stated " do you mean what it used to be the [] standard? as it happened in the past . I still believe without mental and physical balance, tenacity and heart is obsolete and useless, if not ask yourself why fighting dogs were involved in so rigorous training, they were game of course and many of them winners but all those atributes did not exempt them from being in top conditions.

[Tigerlines]

...no my friend, gameness takes care of all your concerns....and my post was in general , not a specific reply to your post.

[Bull and Terrier]

I couldnt agree more on the standard comment! And while I agree that gameness is a very important trait, if you look at a majority of the champions they follow a certain phenotype that doesnt resemble the short squat show staffs of today. There are always exceptions to the rule but I think balanced animals are more often than not the "winning" formula. And as said by 12 gauge. There are still legal venues to test a dogs performance, maybe not true gameness but performance under pressure non the less.

12 gauge, 17-19'' and fit is pretty much exactly the size dog i am looking for sometime in the future.

[Tigerlines]

....bull and terrier, just to clarify , what type of ch are you refering to? and may i ask what these legal activities are that test performance under pressure?

[Bull and Terrier]

Game champions of yesteryear.... And legal venues could range from Coyote hunting to hog catching.

[Tigerlines]

...so you are saying game ch's of yesteryear wear predominantly 17 - 19 inch? ....and a coyote /hog hunting can in some way retain a level of gameness in the stafford?

[12 gauge]

Oh the beauty of gameness! can a 1/4 ton, 4X4, triton engine, 8-10 cylinder truck but without wheels and defective transmission haul anything?, why not! the power still there? just my philosophy

[Bull and Terrier]

No and i quote ch's of yesteryear both Staff's and APBT's followed a phenotype which " doesnt resemble the short squat staffs of today". I only said that I personally prefer a dog in the 17-19'' range. Futher more I stated that these venues can tests a dogs performance under pressure but not "true gamness"...

[Tigerlines]

...i will work your previous post out in a moment, until i do can you answer my previous post?

[12 gauge]

not literally gameness in coyote or hog hunting but it takes a good set of twins and a good dog to keep up either creatures. I've seen many pits down from gamest of the gamest ancestors and claim to be game themselves take off scare after the first serious encounter with a wild boar and much smaller vermin but I've also seen bt's with hearts of a lion holding down bad ass wild boars.

[Tigerlines]

.....and these GAME pits, were proven game....?

[12 gauge]

.....and these GAME pits, were proven game....?

read what i wrote again and you'll find the answer

[Tigerlines]

....yes , you state game ancestery.....and claim to be game themselves,.....i stated PROVEN game.....

[12 gauge]

....yes , you state game ancestery.....and claim to be game themselves,.....i stated PROVEN game.....

a lot of dogs claim to be proven game in the past, did I witness those? No, neither these ones I saw taking off on wild boar

[Tigerlines]

cool, just wanted to clear that up........and were can these staffords WITH HEARTS OF A LION BE FOUND....?

[12 gauge]

i wouldnt know where sorry

[Tigerlines]

.....no i didnt think you would ...

[12 gauge]

that makes 2 of us, you and moi, why u asked if you knew all along

[Tigerlines]

.....oh im always clear on my position and understanding , i just wasnt clear on yours .......but your bang on right I HAVE NEVER SEEN HEARD OR KNOWN OF ANY STAFFORDS WITH HEARTS LIKE LIONS FINDING THE DEPTHS OF A TRUE PROVEN DOGS GAMENESSS BEFORE IT FOUND THE DEPTH OF ITS OWN.....good luck with your breeding and training methods though:D

[12 gauge]

the height size and weight ranges are nothing more than symantics, gameness is the only definable trait of a worth while stafford.and before any one claims rolling your stock and culling your stock is an illegal activity today , you should remember it has always been an illegal activity. Throughout these dogs history , that dilema has been faced by every breeder and preserver of a true stafford.



cool, just wanted to clear that up........and were can these staffords WITH HEARTS OF A LION BE FOUND....?


U contradict urself, why are u asking for heart of a lion stafford or why the curiosity when u clearly stated fights are illegal nowadays and according to you is the only way to test the heart of a dog. i dont get you

[12 gauge]

.....oh im always clear on my position and understanding , i just wasnt clear on yours .......but your bang on right I HAVE NEVER SEEN HEARD OR KNOWN OF ANY STAFFORDS WITH HEARTS LIKE LIONS FINDING THE DEPTHS OF A TRUE PROVEN DOGS GAMENESSS BEFORE IT FOUND THE DEPTH OF ITS OWN.....good luck with your breeding and training methods though:D

thanks for your kindness, but i dont base my breedings or trainning methods on pure luck :D

and still contradicting yourself, you can be clear in understanding as u dont know me or my dogs, underestimation is a bitch!

[Tigerlines]

....no my friend , clear in MY OWN understanding of these animals...you seem to have misread my post......... and could you explain were my contradiction is?

[kira]

hahha this makes me laugh

people always go on like the apbt is the only game-dog in the world

how would you know unless you tested all the staffords that they aint game?

[Lee D]

hahha this makes me laugh

people always go on like the apbt is the only game-dog in the world

maybe not the only, but definitely the best for the job:D...here comes another can of worms

[kira]

maybe not the only, but definitely the best for the job:D...here comes another can of worms

lol

thing is tho lee, i made a thread about gameness, and the general consensus is, you cant know whether a dog is game if you aint tested it

so on a serious note, how can you possibly know they are the best for the job???

unless you tested a shitload

[12 gauge]

in the US pits are better for the job as there are only a handful of staffords worth feeding and using O2 and an elefant shitload of worhtless dogs, in the UK is a different story when it comes to staffords.

[Irish Pitbull]

Crossguns kennels or Kendlea kennels are the best in UK/Ireland.

[redneck]

i see the show people the same way i see fanatical religeous people. stupid.
religious headbangers quote and live their life against to Koran or the Bible because they are too stupid to figure out the real world and need a bunch of rules and examples to follow and the same goes for people that need a standard to think they know a good dog or keep & breed good dogs, they are stupid.
buying a dog from a stupid person is a bad move, but buying a dog bred on a stupid standard by stupid people is just asking for trouble.

thats my tuppence. steer clear of heartache, stay away from the show game unless you need a new hobby

[Irish Pitbull]

Crossguns kennels or Kendlea kennels are the best in UK/Ireland.

Well they're my favourite anyway :P

[nasher]

Crossguns kennels or Kendlea kennels are the best in UK/Ireland.

are you taking the piss:eek:

[peppapig]

aint crossguns them ones that breed the fat short show stuff??

[peppapig]

http://www.champdogs.co.uk/breeder/2194.html

[12 gauge]

glad i see some traffic around, hey they are crosschunk's, i mean crossgun you talking about! lol, shit people would never get what real staffords should be like, i had an idiot tell me if the stafford is outside the new standard its got american pit in them or else, the saddest part he's been in the dogs for over a decade, i left it at that.

the stand pretty for the pics for sure

[The Manc]

Thry look shite!:(

[BGD]

They look like that Frenchie got into the blood somewhere down the line.

[Tigerlines]

what you need to bare in mind is that,....the percentage of those breeding show dogs , inbred of the m line dogs is tiny............the vast magority of staffords kept and bred are nothing like the show strain stuff...........particularly in areas where these dogs have run the streets for generations......ten a penny like rats in a sewer

[Bull and Terrier]

Tigerlines i feel like i need a translator for some of your replies. Do you mean that most staffs in the UK are more performance type?

Man those crossgun dogs sure have short noses. Someone said it right when it looks like that frenchie got in the genepool somewhere.

[Tigerlines]

thank you , bull and terrier,...very good...what does PERFORMANCE TYPE mean to you?????.......

[Bull and Terrier]

Your welcome! It was in reference to "ten a penny like rats in a sewer"... always gives me a chuckle...

Performance "type" generally means a more athletic body shape> longer legs, smaller chest and longer snout than the show staffs as exemplified by the crossgun dogs.

As ever i know you consider performance type as something proven in the box which i would agree with! But thats more of a venue to "perform" and less a "performance looking type".

[Tigerlines]

if you mean long legged, long muzzled ,tall athletic staffords....then yes these are ten a penny.............if your refering to WORKING DOGS......then i can assure you , their are plenty of small time doggers in the uk.......breeding dogs of TYPE.......breeding some of the best you will ever see........who you will never know about...

[ultimatek9]

Hey Guys Im looking for a bitch pup of show quality . any good kennels that you guys know of ?

Not sure of your location, but I have a friend in Florida that produces some nice SBT. I got my boy from her. His ancestors are conformation, obedience, tracking, weight pull, and flyball titled.
This is Boom, my 6 month old pup.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/ultimatek9/Boom/DSC03060s.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/ultimatek9/Boom/DSC03033s.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/ultimatek9/Boom/DSC03010s.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/ultimatek9/Boom/DSC02998s.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/ultimatek9/DSC02933.jpg

Here he is at flyball training tonight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azi4GJ28oYo

Her website is www.freewebs.com/chulapit (http://www.freewebs.com/chulapit)
Her SBTs are from Inkwood Kennel and Tempest Kennel. She is considering doing a repeat/final breeding of Boom's parents later this year.

[nasher]

if you mean long legged, long muzzled ,tall athletic staffords....then yes these are ten a penny.............if your refering to WORKING DOGS......then i can assure you , their are plenty of small time doggers in the uk.......breeding dogs of TYPE.......breeding some of the best you will ever see........who you will never know about...


I must be in the wrong areas as I always see the hoods on the estates with the shorter stockier types or the mastiff mix not many taller types running 10 a penny around the streets for generations.
and that is one of the largest council estates in europe

[Sasha's]

i see the show people the same way i see fanatical religeous people. stupid.
religious headbangers quote and live their life against to Koran or the Bible because they are too stupid to figure out the real world and need a bunch of rules and examples to follow and the same goes for people that need a standard to think they know a good dog or keep & breed good dogs, they are stupid.
buying a dog from a stupid person is a bad move, but buying a dog bred on a stupid standard by stupid people is just asking for trouble.

thats my tuppence. steer clear of heartache, stay away from the show game unless you need a new hobby

Nice post mate

[Tigerlines]

nasher......thats a funny post:).....i would forget the HOODS IN COUNCIL ESTATES.....if the american bully was leagal ,.......the HOODS IN COUNCIL ESTATES would be the no.1 owner of this type.....but i know where you are coming from......the no.1 cross i have seen in these type of areas is the american bulldog x staff.......very large ,and normally called a pitbull x staff by your average glue sniffer.however ...in other areas , most noteably in the midlands,liverpool,areas in london and parts of yorkshire, the 'red nosed terrier' ...the 'american staff'....-the old tyme staff....the long legged staff...the irish staff...the athletic staff....the irish blue staff......the red nosed staff..ect,ect...have been advertised and sold to the general public as much as any show bred kc staff.....its like pre 36................you had better learn what your looking for with your own two eyes....or you will get burned real fast by a peddler...whether kc or not.
in my own area ...within a radius of a mile ..... the long limbed, pit bull type is far more predominant , than the kc type.......and it is owned by far more types of people ,from white lads ....asian lads.......black lads....ect..........many gangs , with many connects all over the country...they are not fools when it comes to making money...and they see animals for a use......if they know of a small time dogger breeding good dogs of type......they steal the animals ....for you know what.
remember in 1991 their was an estimated 10 - 20,000 pitbulls in the uk....and they werent here for conformation shows..lol
and they werent all lead off to the dog pound.
have a look at some of the breeding practices in the uk....where dogs have been bred for type.......it is very different to the mainstream american breeding practices of inbreeding off names, families,lines,papers ect...........many who breed dogs of TYPE ....are interested in the animal, not its breed , not its name, not its bloodline,not its potential......they breed like lurcher men........
i remember the first time i saw a pitbull,...i owned a stafford from good kc lines ,and knew a guy from notts.....he also kept staffords, and was into field sports,..he was housing the pitbull for a few days....and had to keep his staffords out of the way...this animal was no joke.....it had no ears , and damaged lips ....it was operating on a different plane to a pet animal........it was all work, if you get my meaning.....it was nothing like the show types in build, or character..to me it was my first eye opener......it made me research everything i thought i knew about the history of these dogs, ..it was exactly like the dogs described by the old tymers in those early books on the stafford........now dogs are being solld left , right and center which could fall into the catagory of PITBULL TYPE......this fact is why the dangerous dogs act has become unenforceable, the police bare the brunt of the cost to enforce, and as it stands today in the uk ,that cost is too high due to the shear number of long limbed pitbull/staff types with unprovable ancestry.

[mixed-grill]

:rolleyes:...Jesus 'tigerlines' you dont half jibber some rubbish...no one asked for your life story!:D
"who you will never know about":rolleyes:...you just had to add that one...you got waay to much spare time

[Tigerlines]

cheers mixed grill,....im in my kitchen cooking egg fried rice while typing this...its a beautifull day here in the uk..:)....i responded to the comments about long legged staffords in the uk......i stated my own personnal experience and understanding.......it obviously riled you why?????
are you a breeder of kc dogs????
are you a peddler of long limbed types?????
do you have a problem with reading????
why torture yourself by reading jibber jabber??????
why respond to jibber jabber.......with your own jibber jabber??????
you are funny.......and stupid........lol

[Tigerlines]

and the comments about "you will never know"...were not directed at anyone in particular.....nor were they about any one in particular..........it was not an attempt to imply i know ...and you dont.....it was a statement of truth......heres another life story jibberish just for you mixed grill.....i was enquiring after a dog around 5 yrs ago , a friend of a friend....put me in contact with a man in burton....i had never heard of this man......and i had never seen this mans dogs before....he had produced a litter of small pitbulls that were serious animals....all smaller than a kc stafford.....these dogs were 1000 pounds each.......this man was not a peddler.....and i only knew of him through a friend of a friend.......i wasnt interested,and did not persue the matter further.....but it illistrates my point ...their are plenty of small time doggers who are producing top class animals who you will never know about.........i hope this post pisses you off even more mixed grill....

[Tigerlines]

mixed grill....... i get it ....i understand why you have jumped on your pc ...to waste your own valuable time..lol...very funny .....you own A REAL STAFFORD..LOL
dont tell me its one of those OLD TIME TYPES....LOL
a REAL one ...LOL
all tall and long limbed...lol
fit for purpose..lol
bred true to type...lol
i bet you are a real dog man...LOL
i bet you know the history and pedigree of your REAL old time type...LOL
i bet your REAL one comes from a line of REAL proven types...LOL
are you selling pupies and pedigrees??????????????????????????????
your a fake and a joke MIXED GRILL ......AND YOUR DOGS ARE LIKE YOUR NAME ....A MIXED GRILL.........NOW GO FIND SOME OTHER GULLIBLE FOOL TO TALK FAKE STAFFORDS WITH.....OR GO JOIN THE IKC .......AND PEDDLE YOUR BULLSHIT WITH LIKE MINDED FANTASISTS.......i dont breed dogs......i dont sell dogs ......i dont own dogs.......and im not after any one elses dogs.............toodle oo

[nasher]

nasher......thats a funny post:).....i would forget the HOODS IN COUNCIL ESTATES.....if the american bully was leagal ,.......the HOODS IN COUNCIL ESTATES would be the no.1 owner of this type.....but i know where you are coming from......the no.1 cross i have seen in these type of areas is the american bulldog x staff.......very large ,and normally called a pitbull x staff by your average glue sniffer.however ...in other areas , most noteably in the midlands,liverpool,areas in london and parts of yorkshire, the 'red nosed terrier' ...the 'american staff'....-the old tyme staff....the long legged staff...the irish staff...the athletic staff....the irish blue staff......the red nosed staff..ect,ect...have been advertised and sold to the general public as much as any show bred kc staff.....its like pre 36................you had better learn what your looking for with your own two eyes....or you will get burned real fast by a peddler...whether kc or not.
in my own area ...within a radius of a mile ..... the long limbed, pit bull type is far more predominant , than the kc type.......and it is owned by far more types of people ,from white lads ....asian lads.......black lads....ect..........many gangs , with many connects all over the country...they are not fools when it comes to making money...and they see animals for a use......if they know of a small time dogger breeding good dogs of type......they steal the animals ....for you know what.
remember in 1991 their was an estimated 10 - 20,000 pitbulls in the uk....and they werent here for conformation shows..lol
and they werent all lead off to the dog pound.
have a look at some of the breeding practices in the uk....where dogs have been bred for type.......it is very different to the mainstream american breeding practices of inbreeding off names, families,lines,papers ect...........many who breed dogs of TYPE ....are interested in the animal, not its breed , not its name, not its bloodline,not its potential......they breed like lurcher men........
i remember the first time i saw a pitbull,...i owned a stafford from good kc lines ,and knew a guy from notts.....he also kept staffords, and was into field sports,..he was housing the pitbull for a few days....and had to keep his staffords out of the way...this animal was no joke.....it had no ears , and damaged lips ....it was operating on a different plane to a pet animal........it was all work, if you get my meaning.....it was nothing like the show types in build, or character..to me it was my first eye opener......it made me research everything i thought i knew about the history of these dogs, ..it was exactly like the dogs described by the old tymers in those early books on the stafford........now dogs are being solld left , right and center which could fall into the catagory of PITBULL TYPE......this fact is why the dangerous dogs act has become unenforceable, the police bare the brunt of the cost to enforce, and as it stands today in the uk ,that cost is too high due to the shear number of long limbed pitbull/staff types with unprovable ancestry.

where im based the youngsters have gone from the types you mention and are into bull greys/lurchers as they use them for sporting purposes namely cats and the odd fox.
as for long limbed staffords are we saying they are all from dubious breedings? as im sure you are aware that there are genuine taller staffords .

[nasher]

mixed grill....... i get it ....i understand why you have jumped on your pc ...to waste your own valuable time..lol...very funny .....you own A REAL STAFFORD..LOL
dont tell me its one of those OLD TIME TYPES....LOL
a REAL one ...LOL
all tall and long limbed...lol
fit for purpose..lol
bred true to type...lol
i bet you are a real dog man...LOL
i bet you know the history and pedigree of your REAL old time type...LOL
i bet your REAL one comes from a line of REAL proven types...LOL
are you selling pupies and pedigrees??????????????????????????????
your a fake and a joke MIXED GRILL ......AND YOUR DOGS ARE LIKE YOUR NAME ....A MIXED GRILL.........NOW GO FIND SOME OTHER GULLIBLE FOOL TO TALK FAKE STAFFORDS WITH.....OR GO JOIN THE IKC .......AND PEDDLE YOUR BULLSHIT WITH LIKE MINDED FANTASISTS.......i dont breed dogs......i dont sell dogs ......i dont own dogs.......and im not after any one elses dogs.............toodle oo

not being funny tigerlines i know mixed grill and he does own real staffords from proven types he does not sell or peddle puppies or has anything to do with the ikc I dont think you know his dogs either maybe pm him if you are getting frustrated and sort it out man to man if you dont own dogs are you one of these haters that like shit stirring???

[Tigerlines]

nasher ...thats funny "sporting purposes namely cats and foxs"...lol......thats good:D
what GENUINE taller staffords would you be refering to..?
just out of interest, how tall do you mean..?
and were are these dogs registered...?

[Tigerlines]

no nasher .....i only wish to wind him up...i couldnt care less how real or fake his dogs are..........and it would have stayed that way , but something in my post must have made him jump on his pc to respond to a post i made towards you....maybe he likes to play the dog man online with his real proven dogs....real STAFFORDS...or may be he thinks that my post was implying that I AM A REAL DOG MAN..lol........he got all jealous,...felt the need to reply directly to me with STUPIDNESS.....so i give back in kind.....and no I DO NOT OWN DOGS.....AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN ANY ONE ELSES EITHER.......and finally your good friend could have followed your own advice and pmd me.....so who is shit stirring?????????????????

[nasher]

nasher ...thats funny "sporting purposes namely cats and foxs"...lol......thats good:D
what GENUINE taller staffords would you be refering to..?
just out of interest, how tall do you mean..?
and were are these dogs registered...?

as for the cats that is true they have sent the old bill and rspca onto the estate to take pics of these dogs so that witnesses can identify them also the crafty gits held a free pet check day at the local community centre, and free chipping so they could have a nose.

around 18/20 inch mark sparpit dogs kc registered

[12 gauge]

nice to see a nice dog from showstock doing something and not just posing pretty for pics. don't take this in a bad way but if i were you i'd let the lil' guy be a pup until he is 1 1/2 year or 2 or whatever age his line or blood usually matures, feed him what he's suppose to get and dont strip him that much. a lot of us love to see our dogs in a good nick but there'll be time for that, keep the pics coming

[Tigerlines]

nasher, i dont know that much about sparpit staffords ...and if they are of "proven" quality,or just nice lookers is a dilema for those who buy such animals ....i will say this ...i like the look of your brindle female..she reminds me of a certain dog;)
may i ask the height and weight of you brindle bitch????
and what her age is???

[nasher]

nasher, i dont know that much about sparpit staffords ...and if they are of "proven" quality,or just nice lookers is a dilema for those who buy such animals ....i will say this ...i like the look of your brindle female..she reminds me of a certain dog;)
may i ask the height and weight of you brindle bitch????
and what her age is???

what dog does she remind you off she is 4 years old around 18 inch mark and 40 odd pound kc reg

[mixed-grill]

no nasher .....i only wish to wind him up...i couldnt care less how real or fake his dogs are..........and it would have stayed that way , but something in my post must have made him jump on his pc to respond to a post i made towards you....maybe he likes to play the dog man online with his real proven dogs....real STAFFORDS...or may be he thinks that my post was implying that I AM A REAL DOG MAN..lol........he got all jealous,...felt the need to reply directly to me with STUPIDNESS.....so i give back in kind.....and no I DO NOT OWN DOGS.....AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN ANY ONE ELSES EITHER.......and finally your good friend could have followed your own advice and pmd me.....so who is shit stirring?????????????????

You wont wind me up chum its all water off a ducks back to me...but you do seem to of had a bit of a frenzy on the keyboard the other night:rolleyes:...too much spare time? or too much amphetamine?:D...as for my dogs no boasts or brags here... cos it got fuckall to do with anybody else!...i'm happy with what i feed hope your happy with yours

[mixed-grill]

As for the original question on this thread...KC type dogs ect...the Staffords of the 'Riskys' affix are worth a look...if thats what your into

[Tigerlines]

wound up enough to read jibberish............. wound up enough to reply........wound up enough to get on your pc........wound up enough to waste your own time ................wound up enough to respond ..........wound up enough to talk of whats my business...............wound up enough to to insinuate you know my habits.......wound up enough to insinuate my use of recreational drugs...........wound up enough to care what i do with my time...hahahahahahahahahaha......
you are a WIND UP .........
and which frenzy are you refering too ???????????
and which dogs should i be happy to feed??????????????
you remind me of the premenstrual jokers on the hunting life............who get online to act like their in the know??????????????
you mind your business ,.....and ill mind mine ...........you seem to be thinking about me , and what i might or might not be doing,and how i should best spend my time .....very unhealthy and very disturbing

[gunman2376]

I agree. But these IMO are both "show" and "go" if you'd like to check them out anyway.

Riskys Staffords Home (http://www.riskysstaffords.co.uk/index.html)

hi
could you tell me what blood line(s) they work with?

thanks

[jacko]

if i am not mistaken one of their foundation dogs was ,rotherham sam aka guiness . he was bred down from havoc, i met guiness in the flesh in the 90s a fine looking boy !

[gunman2376]

im sorry, im just getting started on staffords, i don't know havoc nor guinness, is the a ped*online or site that i can look at?

thanks in advanced

[jacko]

i just looked on sbt database and guinness aint on . i am pretty sure if you look at riskys site look into the section "foundation dogs" and you may just find what your after !

[reids skipper]

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/1/7/8/7/4/getimagecac4l5j1_thumb.jpg (http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=28770&c=3)

[shakka]

yes your right guiness is in riskys foundation dogs.

[jacko]

http://www.riskysstaffords.co.uk/guinness.jpg guinness

[jacko]

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc486/jacko651/guinness.jpg





















http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc486/jacko651/guinness1.jpg